Best Diesel Fuel?

[kieranu Member Find all posts View Profile Close kieranu]

Once again, ########## you are confusing Cetane Index and Cetane Number - all Australian diesels have a Cetane Number of 51 or more which is more than the minimum number of 48 required. I suggest you learn how to read. Please show me where BP guarantees anything more than the Australian minimum standard.

[kieranu Member Find all posts View Profile Close kieranu]

Can somone explain (in case I missed it on this thread) the difference between cetane number and cetane index?

Thanks for asking as there seems to be a lot of ignorance and misinformation around this issue as noted in this thread despite me pointing out the differences and that Australian standards actually meet or exceed those in Europe.

Cetane Index - fuel's density and distillation range - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetane_index

Cetane Number - measurement of the combustion quality of diesel fuel during compression ignition - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetane_number

The Australian standard (as in Europe) is a minimum index of 46 and number of 51. Despite comments on here to the contrary, I've never seen any company GUARANTEE anything higher though the BP data sheet does indicate a typical index of 52. The Prado D4D requires a cetane NUMBER of 48 or more which is well under the Australian standard (51) so all Australian diesel fuels come within acceptable parameters. What fuels such as BP Ultimate and Caltex Vortex Premium add are detergents and anti-foaming agents to theoretically help clean out your injectors and maximize amount of fuel you can get in your tank (possibly why people are getting better "efficiency" with these fuels).

[Chewbacca Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chewbacca]

Living in a regional area we don't have a lot of choice, we have 3 BP servos however only one of them does ultimate diesel and it is 20 mins out of my way. I have been using woollies diesel and have had no issues at all. I actually used BP once just to see if there is any difference and It was less efficient. I know 1 test is not exactly statistically viable. Unsure of what's going on inside the injectors but so far haven't noticed any issues running on woollies diesel.

Cheers, Matt

[John Member Find all posts View Profile Close John]

Thanks for that info, Keiranu. From some of the other posts on here, I was gathering that vehicle manufacturers were bringing vehicles into the country that require a higher "rated" fuel than is currently available.

Appreciate you clearing that up.

[alternative Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close alternative]

Good info Kieranu, i also didnt realise there was a difference between Cetane index and number..... actually what is Cetane

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday kieranu

Thanks for the clarification on the Cetane Index and Cetane Number. (Good question "Riv39" Quote: can someone explain (in case I missed it on this thread) the difference between cetane number and cetane index?).

It makes a debate so much easier when there is facts backing the difference of opinions over speculation.

I was going to look-up the differences between Cetane Index and Cetane Number tonight as i did not know the differences between the two

Here is a good link worth reading on the future of our fuel (Australia) but please "do not" let carbon tax slip into this thread (This link will upset some) as this thread is about "best fuel" and i still think all reputable fuel stations are providing the same fuel but some market better then others (I reckon good luck proving fuel over known injectors when all fuel products continue to meet legislative requirements) with the deception of some being better than others when actually all equal with the give or take of a few additives.

Does Australian oil refining really matter?
http://microsites.caltex.com.au/thes...ly_matter~.asp

This also a good read! (Toyota D4D's are maufacture safe upto Bio 5% (B5) as stated in the sevice manual (N0t the owners manual).
http://www.accc.gov.au/content/item....hapter%206.pdf

I also have a good link on fuel pricing but it is way too political and off topic for this thread!..... Lol

Cheers

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Sorry! Double thread

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday ##########

Quote: Interesting, may I asked all of you a question. If this is the case about the cetane level in diesel fuel in this country being the same as Europe as far back as 2002, why was Toyota Australia blaming the fuel system problems on 'bad' diesel fuel in this country?

Answer: I think you know as a lot of people here who have been at the receiving end of Toyota! They (Toyota) will always throw in a clause if the potato gets too hot! If Australia's problem is bad fuel (According to regulations it isn't!) and if Europe's fuel is and always has been better than Australia's then why are they (Europe) suffering from the same problem with the fuel injectors??

If its the fuel as they "Was" saying back then! (Toyota).. why are they (Toyota) screwing around so much with the injectors (3rd gen now)/seating washers and re-mapping the ECU? Why bother if its the fuel? ... Are they (Toyota) trying to adjust to the world wide fuel supply? Lol... I would have thought they would have considered the fuel rating when building the engine?

Quote: Now, keep in mind that TA new that some of these vehicles had not left the city's boundries as such sooo.... please explain.

Answer: If you was to have faulty injectors/seals then i guess it wouldn't matter where you drive the vehicle, burbs or country.. If they are going to fail they will fail!.. I suppose you can rule out fuel then! As you said: Quote: TA new that some of these vehicles had not left the city's boundaries

Quote: Someone I know had quite a rangel with this company as above because he was using Caltex diesel products. He was told that it was rated at 46 cetane. In the end, after months of argument, they came up with we will pay half of the component bill, not the labour. That was in 2005

Answer: In all honesty it sounds like they (Caltex diesel products) was trying to be fair to him way back in 2005 and i bet you would have to do the hard yards to pull that off again in 2012 given the now global attention on fuel injector wear and causing fouled oil pick-up pipe due to the injector seat seal failure as well. (Simple engine oil sample would confirm injector seal seats and then of course the big debate on the fuel content before any chance of claiming for engine against the big oil companies) Is this the bit where Toyota say got to the oil companies as it is their fuel.... I reckon the oil company would say prove its the fuel and we will pay but if not the fuel try Toyota

I'm guessing that given that the fuel is smick over seas or "Maybe" better than Australia why are they (Europe) having exactly the same problem as here in oz? .... Maybe it might be the injectors because "Toyota's approach on fuel doesn't really stand world wide does it!

Even you blame the design of the injectors and there set-up.

Anyway!... Don't want to go off topic of "best fuel" as there is a huuuuge thread on the injectors debate and it still has no clear end to it as to date!

Cheers

I didn't reply as flaming but only as an opinion to your opinion

[kieranu Member Find all posts View Profile Close kieranu]

I suggest you learn how to read comment. Well, you go down further to the post below and suddenly you have read some of the BP data sheet where it states a typical index of 52. So are you stating that all fuels have the same cetane level in them or not in this country?

Mate, sorry I didn't mean to offend. I made the comment about knowing how to read out of frustration because your subsequent comments had completely ignored contrary information I had already provided to clarify the difference between cetane index and number, the virtually identical fuel standards employed in Australia and Europe, and that BP did not guarantee a cetane index higher than 46.

The point is - for all any of us know Caltex also has a typical index of 52, they just don't put it on any MSDS I have seen. Like BP they state a minimum index 0f 46.

I live in a major city so don't have any issues with fuel - it has been said that fuel out in regional Australia may have more contaminants (hence the recommendation of second fuel filters etc) due to storage tanks not being well-maintained and so on and that is a separate but related issue.

You should have no problem making a warranty claim with any fuel that passes Australian standards and that includes Caltex, Shell, etc as they all have a cetane index in excess of the minimum 48 stipulated by Toyota. If you do have an issue then they are simply trying to find unjustified means to wriggle out of a warranty claim.

As to your allusions that I represent Caltex in any way, if you must know I work for the RAC in WA and have no association with any brand of fuel supplier. I am in no way trying to discredit BP - on the contrary I am stating that there is a lot of misinformation out there purporting BP to be superior fuel in some way, possibly out of their own marketing departments, and that they GUARANTEE a cetane index over 50 whereas other fuel companies do not and that simply isn't the case (unless you are referring to potentially better anti foaming agents, detergents, etc which do not directly impact either cetane index or number).

[kieranu Member Find all posts View Profile Close kieranu]

Further, I found a discussion paper from Caltex here where they state that "The average cetane index of Australian diesel fuel is substantially higher than the national specification of 46 minimum." lending credence to the proposition that BP is not alone in having a typical cetane index well above 46.

http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosp...ubs/caltex.pdf

[Riv39 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Riv39]

As I said previously at least BP does guarranty their fuel in writing where as Caltex does not. Worth the switch IMO.

[kieranu Member Find all posts View Profile Close kieranu]

Thanks Riv39, where can I see this guarantee? Is it on the pumps or something?

[Riv39 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Riv39]

Skywalkerrun, I'm pretty sure Roo agrees that the fuel is not the issue with the injector problems as he said this in his posts in the other threads relating to the injectors and the rattle issue. I believe the common theory before the seal issue and injector design surfaced was that it was fuel related.

[Riv39 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Riv39]

Thanks Riv39, where can I see this guarantee? Is it on the pumps or something?

Go to the BP web site, there is also a link in this thread somewhere. It lasts for 4 weeks after you fill up.

[kieranu Member Find all posts View Profile Close kieranu]

Found it - and that is something I suppose - still, if everyone went purely off guarantees like this we'd all be running on Yokos and Coopers. My vehicle is still under factory warranty so would be covered anyway (Toyota pays for repairs rather than having to chase up the fuel supplier and pin the damage on the fuel) but if people like to have this peace of mind then fair enough.