Preventative D4D maintenance/measures.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Statistically the failures aren't high enough to force Toyota to do anything yet for anyone affected it is big. I know personally two D4D owners whose engines have self destructed. Bit like being bitten to death by an ant, not much chance but devastating for anyone who cops it.

I don't know if the dead engines have had bad fuel or are just falling foul of manufacturing tolerances. One at least was serviced as per the book and well looked after from new.

I don't agree with spending a fortune on catch cans (which generally aren't legal), additional filters and shifting the intercooler but if your engine has lunched itself then I guess you are prepared tp try anything.

Recently I picked up one of the ex work 4wds. I had a choice of a Hilux with D4D or common rail Rodeo. Toyo better condition, fewer km and same price. I bought the Isuzu. One potential time bomb is enough.

I also think that chipping these little diesels is asking for trouble. My opinion only obviously. Mind you a complete remap specific to the engine as I have done with another of my cars is a different story.

So as Roo works on these failed engines he can give his view, just like Andrew. I take notice and respect both your points of view but surely each view is valid without anyone getting antsy.

By the way I still think the rep points system is more about being a good bloke than necessarily being a benefit to the forum but taking points off because you disagree with a point of view is BS. I even lost points for the misunderstanding ntp and I had last week. Go figure. I know it wasn't Dave.

Live long and prosper (a message to my D4D).

[Bear63 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bear63]

I always find these discussions interesting , i work for a small workshop in the Midwest of WA (only service about a dozen hilux's and Prado's out of the 30 or 40 vehicles each week) and like shamozzle we simply don't see that many amount of failures ,I would say we have changed more Mazda and Navara injectors in the last year than Toyota
Never seen a cracked head or head gasket failure either
So i wander if it is the conditions they run in , as where we are one town is 70k away and the next is 350k

[thebigo Member Find all posts View Profile Close thebigo]

I must admit these problems do freak me out about my 120 but I do wonder about a couple of things.

1. Considering just how many Prados are sold due to its popularity what percentage actually have failed. Of the thousands and thousands sold how many fail.
2. I ask the above because I bet if you dig deep enough on any mass produced car you find issues both major and minor. Read the link attached and be glad you own a Prado. http://www.ohwhatalemon.com/
The point is you could scare anyone who owns anything if you wanted to, but i prefer to think of this site as a great knowledgebase on how to look after my Prado, what to look out for and what sort of costs to repair/modify. I prefer that than be constantly Sh&*6ing myself that every 120 is going to detonate at some random time.

I am very dissappointed that Toyota has shown no spine to backup their reputation or product and advise all owners due to a design fault they will be replacing Injectors at xx,000KLms at a reduced price to prolong the life and reliability of their product. Keeping in mind these are plus $60k cars with services at dealers greatly inflated to what the real cost is. This alone will cover the costs on the reduced Injector replacement advice. Sadly this won't happen from what I can see.

Lastly guys let's not get into argy bargy on this forum because i have to listen to and read enough Bu115h1t everyday on the web/radio/tv that i'd prefer this to be dedicated to helping each other out and respecting each other views.

Over and Out.

[Bear63 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bear63]

Well i have bought a Prado simply because i work on all brands of cars , and the amount of gearboxes and injectors we do in mazdas scares me off , we have a clutch or a turbo off in a Navara every other month and the injectors seem to play up as well ,clutches and brake shoes worn out on Dmaxes and Colorado's at 60 k , we just don't see the same problems on the Toyota's at all
But that is only what i have seen working here for the last 30 odd years

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

I must admit these problems do freak me out about my 120 but I do wonder about a couple of things.

1. Considering just how many Prados are sold due to its popularity what percentage actually have failed. Of the thousands and thousands sold how many fail.

There were around 150,000 120 Prados sold in Australia, they sell around 2:1 Diesel to petrol and the D4D came in about half way through, so I guess they sold about 50,000 of them. Add the Hilux to those figures, I gather they sell north of 15,000 Hiluxes a month, probably safe to assume half or more are diesels and the D4D has been in the lux since 2005. So somewhere north of half a million D4D's running around OZ. Even if you could find 5000 catastrohpic failures that is still only 1% and I doubt you could find that many.

As I said before, changing injectors every 100 - 150 thou is common practice in diesels, so once agian the real issue here is the cost of the injectors.

Its good to hear a few more people standing up for the Toyota brand and sharing their experiences of reliability.

Cheers Andrew

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

Many fleet vehicles, especially those around the country on mining sites, never see a Toyota dealership after being delivered. They are serviced and repaired by company diesel mechanics on-site. Thus, Toyota would have no knowledge about how many vehicles suffer from these types of problems. The mining companies just grin and take it. Suppliers rub their hands together providing all the new injectors and other components. A large percentage of vehicles like the Prados, Hiluxes, Troopies and utes are purchased by fleet managers for supply to mining and government. It would be interesting to know what the ratio of private sales to corporate sales actually is. Ane do we, the private consumer, think that Toyota really does care for us? They do care when you bring in your busted car and ask them to fix it because they can see a nice profit coming in. You are supposed to take your new Toyota in for it's complimentary 1000km check up. My brother frequently picks up brand new 'luxes from Perth and drives the 1800km into the desert for them never to see civilization again. They don't care about any warranty issues. It's a big company, there's plenty other cars to drive if one craps itself.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

I thought this thread was about preventative maintainence for 120 owners.................... You know, the small percentage thing. Well that maybe true but it seems to me if I am busy with these issues, other diesel fitters and mechanics must be busy as well. I mean I don't even advertise my business Andrew. It's all word of mouth mate.

Its partly (maybe mostly) about preventative maintenance, but another question was asked in the original post.

As for you not advertising and getting lots of work around this, well stop and think for a minute. Anyone who owns a prado and has a rattle that heads to google looking for an answer is going to find you pretty quickly, doesn't get any better advertissing than google in this day and age, the lady you mention (Sharon) at the end of your post is a case in point!

So dan asked this, its in relation to both the 120 and the Hilux.

Okay where to start,
Righto.....i have 2 D4D engines......one in an 08 prado that has done 68k and one in a 08 Hilux that has done 122k.....
After reading all the posts/mishaps/info and engine rebuilds i'm worried that one of my engines will now just go Bang!


Am in being paranoid or just realistic?...........

Dan

So I think he being slightly paranoid (using his words), not to say that there aren't issues but I think they have been exagerated.

I also note he posted this in another thread

Yeah he has given some great advice for sure and helped many people through their problems....................Only problem i have with him is that every time i read one of his post's i lose more confidence in my Prado being reliable!........

Dan

Its something I have noticed with a number of members, they are reading all this stuff and getting scared to death that they are next.

I "had a go at you" such as it was; after you called people low life backstabbers, otherwise I might have shut up.

So without waffling on too much, about the intercooler, you suggest $1600 is cheap rather than have an engine blow such as Bushy had happen. Where is the proof, its just a theory as far as I can see. As far as I know Matt is the only person to have this done, and yes I have seen it, I was one of the first to see it. He never mentioned fitting it to fix the injector issue and don't recall anyone including yourself Roo mentioning this as a fix prior to Matty getting it done a few months ago. Since then it has moved from a not being mentioned to the point another member posted in another thread that people are actually fitting these to rectify the issue of the injectors. WTF?? I guess if a high profile member says something enough times it must be happening and must be true.

Now your opinion on the intercooler may be correct, and if others on the forum are willing to take your word as gospel then thats fine, but having followed your posts since the beggining I am aware of a constant change in opinions on this subject that usually follows another member doing something that you pick up on and then run with and hammer home at every opportunity. Catch cans and the Intercooler are 2 that come to mind readily, they may be valid but you picked up on the idea after others did it and posted like you have always thought this was a good idea despite never mentioning it before.

Without wanting this to come across as a personal attack the cetane issue is another classic, you banged on about that and the need to use only BP fuel for ages until someone with more knowledge than me pointed out that you had your facts wrong and what you had been saying was in fact incorrect, you dropped that one like a hot potato and never mention it anymore.

Sp please forgive me if I don't swallow the whole intercooler thing as gospel while I wait for the next instalment on the cure all for this.

And just to prove my point further, YOU ROO have posted a number of times to change the injectors at 130k, unless you have the FMIC in which case do it at 150K, so $1600 to get 20 thou more out of a set of injectors? Its hardly a cure for the issue based on that is it!

Why did I fit a bonnet scoop?

It was never to get rid of heat to help the injectors, truth of the matter is when I was 22 I had an SS Torana that I desperately wanted to stuff a 350 chev in with couple big holley carbs and a bug catcher hanging out the bonnet, unfortunately I sold that car to pay for our wedding (which coincedentaly was 20 years ago today). I justified it by thinking I would get more power and better economy, neither of which were noticably different.

Regards Sharon and you laying a guilt trip on me about that one, Yes I am closer but Murray Bridge is still a 2 hour drive from me, my mechanic is another 1/2 hour in the wrong direction. You yourself have said you cant get a straight answer, what do you want me to do? get my mechanic to drive a 5 hour round trip to have a look at a motor? Pretty sure he doesn't do that for free for strangers just because they are in a spot.

Whilst I feel for Sharon and her prediciament if she is "stranded" obviously a long way from home then (and this thread is about prevention) maybe the appropriate RAA (or equivalent) cover or an extended warranty or insurance of some kind might have been a good idea?

I guess my point and argument in all this is that people on; and visiting this forum with D4D's, and its only recently that the 150 has been "deemed fixed" (yes roo you joined and banged on about your 150 that blew up and how crap it was for ages) are being scared to death about taking there pride and joy out on a trip. And I think that some perspective needs to be put into the argument, rather than people who are on a crusade against Toyota (and yes if I could be bothered finding the posts you have clearly stated that intention in the past John) posting relentlesly and IMO negatively about this.

Cheers Andrew

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Just to clarify John, my comment about advertising was not suggesting you are looking to make a profit from this, rather it is to point out that you may well see far more than your fair share of these because of the fact that a google search on this subject will lead people to you. Google this subject for a month and it won't lead you to my mechanic who doesn't see any of these issues. Its what I see as forum exageration for want of a better description.

I have also not said that there is no issue, I agree that it can be broken down to injector seat and the injectors themselves. As I stated several times; it is normal practice to change injectors on most diesels every 100-150 thou, which is in line with your recomendations, so really this is just normal everyday maintenance for a diesel.

The seal issue seems to be able to monitored by checking the oil pickup, easy and no big deal.

I note that you still haven't given any sound reason for suggesting people need to change to a front mounted intercooler, as you spend so much time working on and learning about these issues surely you have a sound explanation for how you came to this conclusion? Its an expensive mod, I hope you souldn't suggest it on a huunch. Do me a favour, shoot me down in flames on this one, prove me wrong, I am man enough to take it.

I dont mean to or want to personally attack you John, however it seems your profile is such now that if you say something it becomes gospel, regardless of whether it is based on fact or fiction. I simply pointed out some of the inconsistencies I have noticed during your time on the forum, others may not have had the advantage of reading your posts from the beginning as I have.

I would also respectfully point out that you were the one to start belittling people in this thread and calling them names, something that I have not resorted too.

I dont alway quote all of a post as I cut out the part I deem not important, its part of the rules of the forum actually if you care to check.

Cheers Andrew

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

Tisk, tisk, tisk.

And the award for the thread with the longest string of long posts goes to... *drum roll*

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Thanks for the reply, I still have not read anything that convinces me even slightly that the intercooler is the issue, others can make their own mind up on that one.

As for the lack of issues in the 150, well its newer and average ks would be less, everyone thought the injector issue was over on the late 120's until they got a few more k's on them. Time will tell.

I hope you are correct and all the 150 owners have a dream run, in the meantime I will be sticking with my top mount.

Cheers Andrew

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

[mackayvx Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close mackayvx]

Just dont shake it too much as it might irritate the rash... Tehehe...

[MDS69 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close MDS69]

Who is Sharon.
Also my initial take on the front mounted intercooler position on the 150 might have been to reduce bonnet height as I believe the overall roof height of the vehicle is lower than the 120, you know keeping everything symetrical or what ever. Also as the 150 produces more power and torque compared to the 120 with basically the same motor (different manifolds I believe) that the heat soak John is referring to will make an engine less powerful (again John has mentioned this elsewhere) than a cooler engine. I experience it in my MN Triton that on hot days it is a dog compared to the cooler days/nights. I never would have thought that a front mounted intercooler would be a preventative measure for cooler injectors.
Anyway enough of my uneducated ramblings.

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

Maybe, the FMIC is there to save time on ripping the top off the motor so they can get in and fix the injectors quicker. Could have been expecting some issues with the 150?

[azzss Member Find all posts View Profile Close azzss]

If toyota think this top mount intercooler was a major problem with the 1kd, why didn't they change to a front mount in the hilux at the latest model upgrade?