diesel rattle in D4D Prado

[Corigator Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Corigator]

I'm certain mine has got markedly louder after I used fuel system and injector cleaner last week!

Budgey, It will stay noisy until your next tank fill. You should see the benefits then. You need to run all the cleaner through the system. That's what happens to mine. I can only assume the cleaner changes the properties of the fuel and makes it noisy?

[davelozt Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close davelozt]

Thanks again Roo, sounds like good advice. Truth is i love the damn thing, and having had a 90 series kz motor (300,000kms) and still going strong for the new owners, i really want to persiveer with this one. It was just a pity that the old prado would struggle pulling 2.5 tons otherwise i would of kept it. I will also install a filter before the main one as discussed by yourself on this forum. Im supprised that toyota didnt have a pre filter supplied from new. P. s, Will i have to get the ecu reflashed at toyota after the new injectors are installed by my mechanic? Cheers Dave

[davelozt Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close davelozt]

Hmmm.... 2006. I did a 2006VX model just recently. Funny enough, I ran out of time and we missed the reflash going in before the injector installation. I didn't have a problem with the ECU recognising the compensation codes.
The Roo.

Interesting! Thanks for all your help. Cheers Dave(uncle Arthur)

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Hmmm.... 2006. I did a 2006VX model just recently. Funny enough, I ran out of time and we missed the reflash going in before the injector installation. I didn't have a problem with the ECU recognising the compensation codes.
The Roo.

I believe al's the re-flash of the ECU is to re-arrange pri-injection (Pilot) on cold start to reduce the knock on cold start!

Has nothing to do with the Compensation codes!

I also believe that its realy important to fit DLC tip injectors in-place of the None DLC's due to low sulpher in the fuel causing premature wear on the none DLC injectors.

Cheers

[davelozt Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close davelozt]

Well written Chris. Mate, you are right. With the 2007 models, in between the 9th and 11th months, I have noticed when you are changing out from the 23670-39185s, the 23670-39186s, to the 23670-39316s, that sometimes it will not expect the codes without the reflash. This has happened in two vehicles now. Luckily, I could start the vehicles and drive them down and get the reflashes done.
It's definitely the go to get the latest reflash installed into your ECU before you put the new injectors in. Whatever the parameters do, including what Skywalker has said.
Just for your information Chris. You can't actually install the 23670-39316s in some of the early models. You are stuck with the 23670-39185s. It's got to do wth the injector driver.
Gee Chris, how are all the changes that happened in that period as above. It's like the engineers panicked or something. Check it out Chris, and you will have a bit of a laugh mate.
Catch you later Chris, John.

Roo, when you stated "some earlier models" cant have the 23670-39316s (DLC) injectors fitted, which ones are they? Is my November 06 one of these earlier models? Dave

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday John

In all honesty i have never seen/heard of anyone have/complain of any problems with the change over with the injectors (on the 120 series D4D Prado (Not the Hilux) As all Aussie D4D Prado's (Not Hilux) are Euro4 spec and solenoid type?.. All of them!

I have "not" heard or seen proof of anyone not being able to run the 316's (Must be full set of x4 316's not mixed/integrated with 39185 or 39186) without the re-flash but i do believe that the scan tool doesn't always erase the self learn't mapped parameters from the old calibration codes unless the battery is disconnect so that the ECU can self-learns from factory default on the new calibration codes.

All "Aussie" D4D injectors in the 120 series

None DLC 23670-39185 (08/2006 - 09/2007)

None DLC 23670-39186 (10/2007 - 11/2007)

DLC 23670-39316 (12/2007 - 05/2008)

Would you also agree that it is important to replace the None DLC injectors with the DLC injectors needle/tip given that low sulpher fuel is also a big enemy to the None DLC's concerning premature wear (Not including water or dirty fuel).

Obviously the seating washer breach with its other chain reactions is a separate enterty from injector wear but i am focusing on injectors alone.

Cheers

[mackayvx Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close mackayvx]

Hey fellas...
Heres a question about a NON D4D... Dont panick guys Im sure you can all handle it.
In regards to ECU reflash, is the KZJ120 (1KZTE) a set and forget ECU?
Im just wondering if there would be an update for my old oiler...
Stay cool.
Drew.

[Gipsy Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Gipsy]

Hi Folks!

Just a quick one... I have followed the first and last few pages in this thread but unsure of developments. I have the 2013 D4D Hilux and not sure if these injector worries have now been rectified by Mr Tojo in the latest models. Have they????

Also, what are the current ideas about Aussie fuel specs and are they an issue any more? I sure noticed a difference in my old factory turbo 80 cruiser when I changed between brands. Some went like a cut snake whilst others choked off the power supply. Incidently Caltex was the 'best' I found. So far in the 'lux I have stuck to Caltex but advice is always welcome.

I also read with interest roo's comments about the wise idea of a water trap/filter/prefilter and I am now seriously researching what is the safest and most reliable one. Anyone seen the 'water watch' thingy and is this the bees knees? Maybe I missed something but the roo seems to recommend a prefilter and elsewhere on this forum I see the Cat filter with a 30 micron cartridge is fine.

Cheers, Gipsy

[Gipsy Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Gipsy]

thanks roo... phew!!! anything new on the fuel issues?

[Baileys Diesel Group Member Find all posts View Profile Close Baileys Diesel Group]

Hi Gents;

Thought i might 'chime' in here on the DLC / non-DLC debate.

Obviously, we done a serious amount of research with regards to these injectors before we went and threw some serious cash in R+D and Tooling to make it work. We very quickly found out, that the actual testing proceedures for ALL euro4 engines (1KD-FTV - not inlcuding those 'weirdies' fitted in Hi-ace) all actually had the same test parameters. Even with the coding, we could not find a change. So to our mind it appeared as though the changes made across the series were HARDWARE only updates in engineering.

As Chris very rightly points out, the advantages of DLC over non-DLC are pretty big. So much so, that we made a conscious decision to not offer anything else in the Euro4 range (not to say we couldn't). Initially, we were making our strongest recommendations to have the ECU -reflashed (reprogramed for those who don't know what we're reffering to), however many clients kept coming back saying 'codes went in fine, vehicles running great, i will try the reflash in a couple of weeks'. I've not actually heard anything back from anyone.

I must say, that swapping over individual injectors over from NON-DLC to DLC is not a great idea.

What DLC does have as an additional benefit, is a FASTER reaction time due to its lower friction side effects. (the two main advantages is this lower friction and increasing the case hardening through the roof!) Therefore, the pre-injection values are a little higher, but its really less than 5% outright (and on 1.5-2cc.min - that is not much).

Given the above, we really think that changing one or two over and mixing part numbers would simply be too much for the ECU to handle. But, by changing the complete set of four over, this problem seems to go away and the ECU is easily dealing with this change.

Given all of the above, our position is still to have the vehicle re-flashed, but we're also telling our clients to complete a suck-it and see approach if there not sure they want to spend the additional money. but again, i actually don't believe any of the 200+ sets sold to the Euro4-nonDLC guys have actually gone and done it!

[Baileys Diesel Group Member Find all posts View Profile Close Baileys Diesel Group]

I should also point out that the engineering-updates throughout the range of injectors fitted to Euro4 was not just limited to DLC coating, and some of the changes were about minimising the effect of the re-action time, thats why there really is no change in the testing plan...
Anyway, thought i might 'share' a little insight.

Moral of the storey, DLC= good thing! (maybe i should have jsut said this without the essay!)

[davelozt Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close davelozt]

I should also point out that the engineering-updates throughout the range of injectors fitted to Euro4 was not just limited to DLC coating, and some of the changes were about minimising the effect of the re-action time, thats why there really is no change in the testing plan...
Anyway, thought i might 'share' a little insight.

Moral of the storey, DLC= good thing! (maybe i should have jsut said this without the essay!)

Hi Matt? Your injectors (DLC) seem like the go for me, but as I have a november 2006 D4 Prado with Denso 095000-7030 injectors, will the ECU handle a reflash if required? As the roo stated, some of the earlier D4's ECU's wont accept a relash update. Whats your thoughts on this? Cheers Dave

[davelozt Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close davelozt]

Sorry Roo, my mistake! What you said was, the injector driver not being compatable with some earlier models and the new DLC injectors cannot be used. I mistook the injector driver to be the ECU. Please excuse my ignorance but what is the "injector driver"? Thanking you and Skywalkerrun for all your respected input and advice. It is very much appreciated. Cheers again Dave

[Baileys Diesel Group Member Find all posts View Profile Close Baileys Diesel Group]

Sure thing Guys.

BTW, PLease feel free to ask as many questions as you like. Its important for us to also understand the type of information that is important to our end users so we can make sure we include it in our website / marketing material ...

To answer your question directly Roo, the actual components that we have ID'd to be the main contributors + the nozzle have been the source of quite an amount of pain when it came to actually sourcing parts for these units. I personally visited a large number of Diesel Fuel Injection manufacturers all around Europe, investigating and then sampling to end up with the suppliers that we have. The whole point was to make sure that firstly we could get the quality of parts we needed to meet with our performance guidelines that we set for ourselves, but then also to see what we could do with adapting the DENSO design (materials, coatings and so on - like our nozzles for the Euro 3 hilux are DLC coated - DENSO nor toyota bothered to help those clients out with a DLC fix like they did for you all). Even processes like heat-treat makes a massive difference to the finished product and its longevity.

So that being said, our goal has alway been to develop a product AT LEAST AS GOOD as Denso. I know that seems a little arrogant (like how can a small company like baileys out engineer DENSO), but the reality is, we have the resources of our suppliers at hand as well, and not to forget, how much of DENSO's R+D budget would you think is redirected to stop the income from a cash cow? we're also far more adaptable. DENSO has a global problem, with global fuels, environmental conditions..... we have Australia. Its a hell of a lot easier to manage!

Also, on the points above about drivers, ECU's from Euro 3 engines cannot deal with Euro 4 Injectors - first two digits of the code always give away what engine management system there designed for (codes always start 11 for E3, and 13 for E4 engines.) and of course, Coil type injectors are un-compatible with Piezo- for FAR more reasons then just its actuation...

Hope this helps guys. As you might tell, we're fairly confident.

BTW, we have a Warranty Video i was meant to shoot today that explains our warranty, and more importantly the ETHOS behind it. This should be uploaded tomorrow providing we don't get slammed like we did today

Also, MODS, if you think this is too commercial; i am more than happy to divert / have this conversation in our suppliers section

[davelozt Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close davelozt]

Unless it's late at night and I have had a bad day, you are pretty safe, Dave. LOL. And I won't be treating another member like I did CJ and Andrew, like that again. MJ's advise is good advise. Stay with the technical side of things.
The injector driver is that box thing with the plugs coming out of it over the passenger side near the genuine fuel filter assembly. If someone has a photo of it, that would be great if you can post one up please.
It supplies the electronic information to the injectors from information that the ECM or ECU sends it.
Hope that helps, Dave.
The Roo.

Thanks Roo, Cheers Dave