diesel rattle in D4D Prado

[milflores Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close milflores]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

Hi all

I bought a 07 Hilux with a D 4D from Q Fleet Auction in Toowoomba in June 10. Warranty expired. Engine rattled when cold in the morning. Same symptons as the problems mentioned in this thread. Took it to the Toyota Dealer in Mount Isa. Test results indicated all four injectors faulty. Results sent to Toyota and the dealer called me after a month and I had all four injectors replaced with new programming free of charge.

Now hilux is running without rattle although it is not the quietest vehicle on road. I think Toyota is making sure that Hilux is not a lemon.

[mcfisherclan Member Find all posts View Profile Close mcfisherclan]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

Hey Milfores,

I have an 06 Prado, and it is exhibiting the signs of the dreaded noise. I also live in the Isa and got the rudest "customer service" rep when i went in to enquire about this. Can i please get the details of your replacement so i can take in some ammo with me when i try again?

mcfisherclan at gmail dot com. It would be greatly appreciated. It is going to be going in to be looked at for the soverign bullbar issue as well soon, so hopefully i can get it all done in one go.

Cheers

[Ian Rogers Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Ian Rogers]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

Hi guys

I have been watching this thread for over 2 years as I have a June07 build D4D diesel prado with the classic rattle so many have described. Started at 40,000 and been recorded as a complaint ever since at services with usual brush off - injectors are in spec, all diesels rattle at startup, have to leave it overnight etc.

Anyhow at 100,000 the other day now out of warranty and with an extended warranty not with Toyota I thought I'd have one more go before I changed dealers.

For the first time I got to speak to the workshop foreman and not some patronising customer service rep. Couldn't demonstrate the problem of course but he kep a straight face.

Anyhow I let them keep it overnight after they told me they could not find a problem.

Bottom line - an injector clean (additive in fuel) and a ECU reflash and the difference is spectacular. The rattle is gone at startup and acceleration, no black smoke , no engine hunting at the lights with accompanying annoying dash rattle.

Fingers crossed until next winter.

Unrelated issue - they replaced a leaking transfer case rear seal.
Ian R

[clifton Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close clifton]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

Unrelated issue - they replaced a leaking transfer case rear seal.
Ian R[/quote]
Hi Ian R,
Thanks for the update, I am keeping and eye on mine so I hope the rattle stays at a minimum as I am now out of warranty

[scott68 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close scott68]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

Hi guys,
I too have an 07 Prado bought in July new and I thought I would share my little bit on this engine knock. Mine started at about 10k and when it went back in for its service I also heard the motor knock start. I took it to the dealer and as these 48 pages all say, Toyota could not hear the problem. I too left it for the cold start test and yes I was hearing things. They said as this is the new D4D they will make some noise when they start but i made them note it down on my report. I did the same at 20k and 30k and apparrently i was hearing things. What crap. I decided to take my TOY to another toyota place near work and had the service done there. When i first mentioned it the nice manager let slip that Toyota are trying to identify the problem but it was eluding the techs why it rattled. What he didnt know was I found Prado Point. I played Dumb and let him run off with his mouth. He said that toyota were trying to get some platinum coated injectors for the early D4D motors but they were on short supply but as I was a valued customer........... He would see what he could do. On the next service same rattle but wasnt getting louder and i started to work out it had to be under about 5 degrees in the morning for my rattle to start. It got to the point that I had to knock it out of gear at the lights to stop me spilling my coffee on the way to work. This little beast was sick. Back into Toyota and had the engine mounts replaced. Maybe the mounts were sheared due to injectors being imbalanced but thats just cynical....This stopped the shake but the rattle still happened. After discussing the rattle and thinking about why it was only winter, my lovely manager said that "If you think there is a problem in Perth then the Manjimup dealer is getting abused left right and centre due to the cold weather. All this was forming a pattern. At 60k service I noted that it was drinking more fuel than it use to. They did the cold start and injector measurement and hey presto all the injectors are "in Parameters" but still noisy. They then did the magic ECU Flash. I thought I was in the clear but as I had an early D4D I watched here and kept my ear to the car. By 70k the rattle returned. My Nice and open toyota manager clambed up. He even hid from me in the store cos by this stage a very informed and not so happy owner smelt blood. My car was getting to the end of warranty but after following advice from here, had notes all over my log book about the rattle and signed off. I realised that once out of warranty the stakes were on the up. Again they checked the injectors and apparently all were inside factory parrameters as set out by Toyota. Talk about chasing a rabbit. By my 80k service and now out of warranty it was rattling even louder but when i went to pick my car up they said 2 injectors were outside spec and would be replaced even though I was outside warranty but noted it through my service history. I rationalised with the Manager about if 2 were gone then the other 2 must also be close and asked for the readouts to compare. "Under no circumstances can anybody obtain the service docs as they are internal Toyota documents and not for the public arena" was the response. What crap. Talk about covering ones ass. After giving him about 40 odd pages of Prado Point to look at and asking him if this is an isolated issue he said he would chat to Toyota Corp about the outcome. Low and behold I was one of the lucky ones to get some new injectors. These new injectors werent even Toyotas. They were Denso Injectors going in. I was willing to put these to the test. I picked up the car after them having it for the week and hey presto she is all quiet like the day it came off the show room floor. 5k and still going strong. Heaps more power and less fuel consumption. Toyota have taken a bashing over all the recalls on the Hilux and the prius. We can all guess why it would look bad for saying a Prado has a bad engine. Im not saying all Prados have the dodgy injectors but If your car rocks on cold mornings check your engine mounts. If it drinks too much fuel and rattles look at the injectors and make sure its all covered by warranty by writing it on your logbook service sheets.
Look Toyota are good cars but dont let them hide. Make some noise and be smart and this thing cant be ignored....Scott
PS. If you have a 200 series cruiser and its drinking a bit of oil every month then get them to right it on the log book. Just another thing my manager let slip

[scott68 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close scott68]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

Sorry guys,
I forgot to mention I had another set of engine mounts put in with the injectors as they had both been sheared again. Adds more info to the game doesnt it. Hey would I buy a Prado again. You bet your life. Have I lost a lot of faith in the Toyota product. You Bet ya. The only thing I feel sorry for is the poor guy who has a knife in his back from Toyota Corp who has to push out the same lines we all hear. Its a bloody shame.

Scott

[Ian Rogers Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Ian Rogers]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

Hi guys

Further to my recent post after about 500km since the ECU reflash my scanguage is showing a significant improvement in fuel economy - something like 2 litres per 100! My long term average over 100,000 is 11.96 litres/100. I hope I'm not deluding myself but I'll be very unhappy if I'm right as I'll think about hundreds of litres of wasted fuel.

I didn't mention that the customer service rep says it will take 2000 km for the ECU to "relearn" its settings. They even wrote this on the invoice! Anyone have a technical comment on this?

Like Scott68 I was also in the habit of putting it in neutral when sitting at lights to stop the rattle. I mentioned engine mounts to the workshop foreman but didn't get any feedback about them checking.

I'm also still delighted with my Prado - its the nicest car I have ever owned and will ever own as I'm about to retire and become a pensioner (albeit self funded).

Ian R

[scott68 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close scott68]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

Ian,
The ECU reflash modifies the timing of the fuel and I think makes it later. Its been a while since mine was done. This inturn reduces the power output of the motor and some how reduces the slap noise we all can here. Its hard to pick but a definite power reduction. Maybe the scanguage owners can verify this? It takes some time for the Computer to settle down but after a while does seem better. The trick is it delays the inevitable. This gives more time to Toyota and less time for the06, 07 and 08 owners to put the injectors up for a warranty claim. I think the injectors were changed out to the new platinum ones in about April 08. I think they have to be over 3.0mm cubed to be out of spec - whatever that is. someone here may be able to say. To put it into perspective the injector bill was apparently about 11k which Toyota accepted as I had made notes on their system but that was their numbers not mine so could actually cost a lot less. It took over a week to do but another bloke i know only took 2 days for a hilux so who really knows. The rattle may not do much but Toyota will definitely change the injectors once over that 3.0mm cubed mark so who knows. Toyota Corporate are probably the only ones who really know whats going on
Scott

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

Interesting read in this months 4WD Action mag.

They reckon that common rail will be noisy and rattle at start-up as more fuel is burnt in order to get up to operating temperature quickly.

Mine does this and then usually settles down but can rattle when using very light throttle depsite being warm.

[clifton Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close clifton]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

A great write up Scotty, mine is still rattling on with my scan gauge fuel consuption up by 2.0l/100kms, I will take it up with our local Toyota dealer again as it has already had the "REFLASH" I would hate to think what it would sound like down south with a cold engine now, I did that one trip and it was terrible. The truck is still a great vehicle.

[Oupsie Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Oupsie]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

Hi All,

My first post on this forum after following it for a couple of years. Recently purchased an 07 120 D4D from the Son In Law (SIL). I am fairly sure it has the "rattles" as described in this thread. It is just out of warranty (by 20 days) and I am looking for advice on how to approach the dealer who did all the servicing since new for out-of-warranty service/repair. I did advise SIL to enquire about the rattle and he did but can't remember the outcome. No service report paperwork but he recalls "they did something about it".

It seems to be worse now than when I first picked it up a week before Christmas, especially when cold, improves after a few minutes running but is always there at low revs e.g. when taking off from a standing start, a bit less evident when warm. I have read most but not all the 48 pages in this thread and I think that is what it is, but being an amatuer not 100% sure. Just about due for 80,000K service.

Any advice?


Ron

[scott68 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close scott68]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

Hi Ron,
welcome to the gang. I would get the son in law to take it back to toyota for checking and not let on he has sold it to you. Tell toyota that the rattle is still noisy and you had asked the notes to be put on file. Ask to confirm they have it noted. They hold the full service history on the computer and should have been noted if the reflash was done. I think statutory warranty covers it as the rattle was notified inside the warranty period. I would try this first and be nice to Mr toyota but be prepared for a knock back and them to tell you your out of luck. Then ask them if they are prepared to go to the department of fair trading as I think it is covered. It all relies on how much notes is on the system. Give the Department of fair trading a call first and have the info ready. I think it all depends who you get to talk to at the service dept

Good Luck

Scott

[Fungi2003 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Fungi2003]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

I think statutory warranty covers it as the rattle was notified inside the warranty period.

Correct! Any issues notified in the warranty period have to be honoured by the dealership/Toyota - thats why I ask them to document any issues into their system and provide a printout/copy of what was documented.

Have you considered taking the vehicle to a Denso specialist and getting a 2nd opinion?

[Oupsie Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Oupsie]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

Scott68, (Sorry that was fungi2003)

Thanks for the tip re Denso for a 2nd opinion. I will try that.

I have asked SIL's PA to chase up the lease company first for service records as these should have been sent to them for service payments and hopefully one of these will list the issue and what they did about it.

With a lease you have to ask for a copy of the service report because normally it goes to the lease company. I did for my leases, always handy for on-sale purposes I reckon.

Cheers Ron

[Oupsie Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Oupsie]

Re: diesel rattle in D4D Prado

Scott,

Appreciate your help and suggestions. The SIL has a new 150 series Prado and will take it to the same dealer, so it may be a little difficult to pretend he is the owner of the old unit. He swapped to new lease and I bought the 120 off him. If we get in quick before he goes for his first service it may work. As I replied to fungi2003, I have asked for the records from his lease company where it may be mentioned on the service invoice. We will see. I will also go for Toyota system records as you suggest.

Cheers Ron