diesel rattle in D4D Prado

[craigm Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close craigm]

03 D4D? The D4D wasn't available in Aust till 06/07?

[Riv39 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Riv39]

Yeah, I just checked and I think it was November 2006 so he must not know the difference when I asked him whether it was a D4D. Either that or he incorrectly quoted the build date for his car.

[Ghost Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ghost]

my big white girl is in today getting her new injectors!! should have her back in a couple of hours, then will fit the new miccon turbo timer :-)

[Ghost Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ghost]

well got the big white girl back :-) wow what a difference in noise! i didnt think mine were that bad until they got changed!!! they replaced the injectors, nozzels and pipes. super quiet now!!

Good luck everyone else, be persistant! i just dont like taking no for an answer, and just go hard if i dont get the results i want,

[Davros Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Davros]

This thread has been going on and on for ages now, and I still can't get any idea of how bad the problem really is.
Can we debate figures for a while?

I'll throw in some made up numbers to get the ball rolling.

Say TMC sold 800 D4D Prados per month on average for the 2.5 years (30 months) where it seems the majority of these problem vehicles were built.
That is 24000 Prados. How many have been affected?? 200? 300? 1000 vehicles?

I have no idea, but for arguments sake let’s work on 1000 vehicles.

That is 4.16% of all D4D Prados sold in that period.
That is a lot, but hardly the Armageddon scenario that some allude to here.

I just want to get some clarity here if that is possible. It is definitely not in the interest of all D4D owners here, to see our resale values diminished by misinformation and exaggeration of an issue if that is the case.

On the flip side, if this is really an issue that will affect all of us at some time or another, it might be time to discuss a way of getting some clarity and accuracy in the information. In this situation, accuracy of information is power to those that are experiencing problems.

Statutory warranty (outside of vehicle manufacturers warranty) is only of benefit if a well researched and accurate case can be made.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Davros some time ago in this thread I was trying to get a feel for the numbers of vehicles affected and the build dates but no one seemed interested. There were three different injectors used in the 120 D4D engines. The last of these is effectively the same as the ones fitted to the 150s but without the electronics. These are the injectors used for any replacements as the first two parts are no longer available. At this stage there is only one part number for the 150s. What I have been able to deduce from here and also discussions with my Toyota service manager is that the first round of injectors were more of a problem that later ones. No hard facts just representation in the number of failures. However we are seeing some 150s show up with rattles and replacement injectors. Mine has the 2nd batch of injectors fitted. No idea if that is a good thing or irrelevant. I do recall Mav (his 120 had a problem and was one with the 1st edition injectors) was putting together a spreadsheet with some details on it but I cannot find it anymore and I haven't seen Mav on the forum for quite a while.

As you can see Toyota are not putting their hands up and accepting responsibility for a generic problem and seemingly put owners through the wringer with warranty claims let alone anyone outside the 3 yr/100,000km.

Given the pictures of the damage that I have seen here and elsewhere on the net it seems to me that the issue is the injectors are wearing and atomisation is less than optimal which simply put means incomplete burn and detonation. There are also stories of damaged fuel pumps but these look to me like contamination rather than a material issue but I am happy to be corrected as I haven't seen one first hand let alone performed any metalurgical testing. This though ties in with the observations from those affected who report the rough and noisy idle until warmed up a situation exacerbated by cold outside temperatures, increased smoke production and also increased (in some cases dramatcally increased) fuel consumption prior to failure/replacement. Obviously extreme detonation is bad and cracked pistons are the final result. What causes the excessive wear is the $25,000 question. All common rail diesels have tighter tolerances in both the pumps and injectors so any contaminant in the fuel is a bad bad thing. But whether the injectors are failing because they are manufactured from less than ideal materials is something I cannot comment on, only those who have had injectors replaced know whether they have ever had dodgy fuel and when their filters have been changed.

For me I get the Service Manager (Staff, whoever) to check my injectors and also to change the filters each service. For the few $ it is worth it in my view although now the tank filters are being changed rather than the engine bay filters because of some concern over damaging the filters or housing so I will be asking the question about Toyota's view on a supplementary filter in the engine bay (and yes I have been following that thread as well as realising there are two schools of thought on this - the advice I got from a trusted source was not to do this).

I agree that too much emphasis on the few percent bad eggs will alter perceptions about the motor but on the other hand it is better to be aware of a potential problem and catch it early rather than soldier on with a rattle and then junk an engine. No matter how you look at it 4 injectors is a lot cheaper than a long engine!

I am still prepared to put together a spreadsheet listing build date (injector type) and problems and service history if anyone is interested.

Michael

[Riv39 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Riv39]

Michael, good post mate....it's also worth remembering that the D4D has also existed in the Hilux now for as long as the 120 series Prado so even more of these engines are out there. Also worth noting that I believe 85% or more 150 series are the diesel due to the low cost difference.

I know Roo for one, being a diesel fitter, is convinced of these issues and there seems strong evidence from europe just look at the situation that occured in Spain.

I am nervous about it for sure and would like to know whether I'm driving a time bomb or not and what if I swaped to the 200 series, the V8 being a common rail also, is it also affected by the same problem?

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Well my D4D ran out of factory warranty last February. I was concerned enough to take out Toyota's extended warranty to 3 years/150,000km. First time I have ever done that! I will get to 150,000km well ahead of time so I will decide between now and then whether to keep the 120 longer or replace it with something else. I am not overly concerned because I have warranty coverage which alters the thinking quite a bit and at worst case a part time 3rd vehicle to soften the pain of having the Prado in hospital. To be honest I cannot see myself in a 150 there are a couple of things that don't do it for me and if the current D4D is still the diesel available I think I will go elsewhere. However if the long awaited V6 D4D appears then I might just be tempted. Right now though the 120 does the job and I have no desire to dump $ for no reason. 2013? That will be a different story altogether.

[wooley Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close wooley]

However would you really want a brand new untested v6 if they're already having these problems with an engine that has been around for some time...

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

However would you really want a brand new untested v6 if they're already having these problems with an engine that has been around for some time...

I know where you are coming from and I realise there is a risk. It wont be untested and Toyota are generally conservative. The engine is being tested (and has been in development for quite a while) as we mull over the problems with the existing engine. I was led to believe that the engine would debut in Japan this year but given the earthquake and tsunami and economic woes in Japan that is probably on hold for some time. I think the problem with the current D4D is the materials the injector is made from and yes there is a risk that this too could be carried over however there is a 3 year warranty+ to cover that contingency. Right now I only have something about half that. I have heard of problems with the V8 D4D in the 200 series so no new engine is going to be trouble free though my LS3 is a definate improvement over the LS2 it replaced.

[mcfisherclan Member Find all posts View Profile Close mcfisherclan]

I feel your pain Mate. Our Nov 06 died yesterday. No smoke but complete loss of power and a mate whos a mechanic said no fuel was getting through. Said this could me an injector problem, but he hopes for our sake it isnt. However he said, that due to the line sucking air, this may have screwed the injectors anyway. All in all, i cant help but feel that for a vehicle that is less than 5 years old it all seems like a warranty issue to me. If they turn around and tell me its going to be $5k i will take them to court. This is bloody rediculous.
Hope yours turns out ok.

[revman Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close revman]

Another one here. 7/07 Diesel Prado with 150,000 kms. So noisy now when cold I am scared to drive it until it warms up. Started getting noisy from about 100,000 kms but at each service was told this was fairly normal. Now it sounds like marbles in the cylinders until warmed up. The dealer submitted an out of warranty claim to Toyota but they didn't want to know. It seems like good work by the dealers to stall on the problem until the vehicles are out of warranty. One injector is out of spec. Quote to repair is $3900 for four or $2300 for one. They suggest to do four as the others will probably need doing soon. What does that tell you about their confidence in their (faulty) injectors?

This is my 12th Toyota 4wd and probably my last. Do I pay to fix it or just sell it and cut my losses? I love the vehicle but my faith in Toyota is now in the toilet. As mentioned in other posts, Toyota used to stand for something. They used to care about their customers and fostered customer loyalty. My recommendeation to anyone considering buying a used Prado / Hilux with a D4D..... look elsewhere. You will potentially be buying a time bomb with the D4D. Up to $5000 for injectors and over $10000 for engine rebuild. Its just not worth the risk.

I know people are talking about a register of disgruntled owners but it is just too difficult to get this info all together. What we need is for someone with a legal background to look at a class action regarding the injectors which are clearly 'not fit for purpose'.

Anyone out there?............................................ ..................

[Marrer Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Marrer]

The thing I get is a metallic buzzing noise particularly when cold at about 1800 revs. It sounds like a screw is loose or something but by the time I get the prado to the dealer I can never re-create it. This is on a 2010 diesel auto and started at about 35000. It is now on 44000ks. Bloody frustrating but everything else is good.

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

My Nov 2010 150 has started making the dreaded rattle at 12000km. Only good thing is that I still have over 5 years of warranty and my dealer has been excellent to date with numerous minor issues. I love the car but I am starting to feel a bit disappointed with so many problems.

A question, what happens if I do nothing, do the injectors eventually fail?

[perthspark Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close perthspark]

Hi, I have just purchased a 12/07 D4d 6 speed manual and was wondering how to tell if it is fitted with the faulty injectors and if they have been replaced. One of you mentioned they used different injectors to the earlier D4d models but i would like to be sure as i suspect i am well out of the warranty period. It has 150,000 ks on it and i have driven it once along with a mechanic and it sounds fine from a cold start and when warmed up.

Any advice would be appreciated,

Cheers, Marco