diesel rattle in D4D Prado

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

Well, that would depend on how many kms those injectors have done. Most would agree that at around 120/140k they should be changed out as a set of 4. I'm running 2 @ 110k and 2 @ 37K. All four will get the flick soon when I install the new ones I have at @ 120k.

[braddo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close braddo]

Well, that would depend on how many kms those injectors have done. Most would agree that at around 120/140k they should be changed out as a set of 4. I'm running 2 @ 110k and 2 @ 37K. All four will get the flick soon when I install the new ones I have at @ 120k.

Yeah,

Thanks Bushbasher, I rang the service manager this morning and asked them to replace all four. They have done 165k and it's probably only a matter of time before the others fail. It'll cost around another $2k, but much cheaper than a damaged engine!

[Baileys Diesel Group Member Find all posts View Profile Close Baileys Diesel Group]

Hi Braddo;

Yep, i think its definately worth changing all 4. As these things age, the injection volume starts to keep up, by the K's, id guess yours would be on at least 7-8mm / stroke by now. Most new ones will be around 5.5, which means this new one is giong straight to -2.0 if the others arent changed.
As an aside, -5.0 is as much as the engine will compensate, so 5.5 was bullshit somehow.

Lastly, the reason for the white smoke was not the injectors (although the knocking meant they were done anyway) but rather the seats on the end of the injectors.

We do a complete set of 4 for $1100 with 2 years warranty / 40,000ks (double what you'd get at Toyota), but its totally your choice which way you go. If you're interested, scan down the main forum page to the 'sponsors section', you'll find all our details in there.

Matt

[braddo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close braddo]

Hi Braddo;

Yep, i think its definately worth changing all 4. As these things age, the injection volume starts to keep up, by the K's, id guess yours would be on at least 7-8mm / stroke by now. Most new ones will be around 5.5, which means this new one is giong straight to -2.0 if the others arent changed.
As an aside, -5.0 is as much as the engine will compensate, so 5.5 was bullshit somehow.

Lastly, the reason for the white smoke was not the injectors (although the knocking meant they were done anyway) but rather the seats on the end of the injectors.

We do a complete set of 4 for $1100 with 2 years warranty / 40,000ks (double what you'd get at Toyota), but its totally your choice which way you go. If you're interested, scan down the main forum page to the 'sponsors section', you'll find all our details in there.

Matt

Thanks Matt,

That's certainly a lot cheaper than Toyota, but I need it done ASAP and I don't know of any diesel specialists on the North Shore or Northern Beaches. As for the warranty, the state consumer laws outweigh what the manufacturer states.

[braddo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close braddo]

Picked the Prado up yesterday and had a lot of white smoke with a burning smell, after a 10 minute drive I took it back. Turns out it was just the oil burning off that they had left behind. No smoke when I picked it up again yesterday arvo and when I started up this morning no rattle for the first time since we got the Prado over 4 years ago. Very smooth and quiet! :-)

[harmsey Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close harmsey]

Just hoping someone could shed some light on a situation I am in.
So after reading 100’s of pages on injector seal failure in the D4D’s I decided to fix my rattling smoke machine. Its a Prado KDJ120 with 150 000 on the clock. Ripped it all down and injector 2,3 and 4 were definitely carboned up. I dropped the sump and the oil pickup was 95% blocked!! I also cleaned the throttle body and torque everything down. All back together with new injectors and started and idled well, no smoke, no rattle, no problems, so I thought. Changed the oil, coolant and all filters while I was there.
Drove down the road and all seemed good until I reached a 100kms and it went into limp mode displaying error code 78, fuel pump failure, circuit open?. I checked all electrical connections to the fuel pump, cleared the error and it started and drove well. Got 15kms down the road when bang complete loss of power, smoke out the exhaust not good!! Tried to restart but would not turn over. Tried again after 20mins and it turned over tried to start then bang rattle clunk, it sort of sounded like $$$$$clunk$$$$thump. So at this stage I am thinking piston failure?? Oil and water appear ok? My question is why now after the repair?? Did I miss something?? The only thing I didn’t do is reprogram the injector codes(was on my way to Toyota)
Gunna start ripping it down on the weekend and see what I can find but would be interested on what your thoughts are or where to start looking?

Cheers Harmsey

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday Harmsey

I would like to ask you a few questions to help get some clarity?

#1 Where are you from?

#2 When you say you put new injectors in do you mean genuine/eBay or re-furbished? (If exchange then odds are referb).

If you torqued all bolts down & all surfaces clean on assembly i personally do not think you would have any probs at all and as far as entering calibration codes that would have no impact at all on the engine running as the ECU will recalibrate anyway!... Calibration code is mainly for idle and the ECU ignores the codes as the injectors wear anyway!... Hence self learn!

Back to limp mode! given that you are getting smoke & limp mode three things spring to mind!... Injector seating washers did not seal, Are the injectors from eBay and though seems a dumb question but did you make sure the fuel rail return washers seated properly because if those leak you will loose rail pressure and pump fuel into your engine oil which is very bad and will cause smoke among other things!!!

If when removed cam cover and reeks of diesel fuel then you have a fuel rail issue!

Cheers

[harmsey Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close harmsey]

Thanks for the reply

Im in Rockhampton
I used Bailey Injectors

I had no smoke on start up and idle seemed fine, drove it around the bloke a few times, no rattle either so I thought all was good. Smoke only appeared as the motor went bang on the highway (were it still is!!!!) doing 100km/h. all seals were replaced with genuine parts including the return line washes. i did not replace the fuel lines so maybe one of them did not seal and spewed into the tappet cover?? may explain the error code 78 also seems to indicate major fuel leak. that fact that limp mode not reoccur on the second run had me thinking all was good. now im pricing short motors!!!!!):$$$$

Cheers Harmsey

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Smoke only appeared as the motor went bang on the highway (were it still is!!!!) doing 100km/h.

Those sealing washers on the return fuel rail are only alloy so are realy easy to crush if over tourqued! Never had need to change fuel rail as it ismade of steel!

If these washers was to leak you would fill your sump oil with fuel very quickly and could cause hydraulic in a quick manner so to speak!

In all honesty (Without picking sides) i wouldn't assume the engine has dropped until tests have been carried because if seal's did leak it could cause hydraulic and if that is the case then you would get limp mode straight away!

ADVISE: get rig towed home!... (Not garage) & pull cam cover off and check for access fuel in cam-cover

#2 check engine oil level and see if oil level has risen.

#3 Pull inlet manifold off and remove glow plugs and do a compression test! (Battery needs to be fully charged).

Once you have carried these test out you will get clarity on what has happened?

Don't take to garage or they will pull shizer loads of money out of you before they even mention an alternative.

I personally am not convinced as yet that the engine has popped as i know a hydraulic can sound catastrophic and still not damage engine!

I also wouldn't go shooting baileys until diagnosed properly!

The only time the fuel rail will crack is if been bent on removal and i stil think you had a fuel rail leak!

Cheers

[harmsey Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close harmsey]

It did feel like hydraulic lock for sure that was my first thought. It didnt mention Bailey Injectors in the origanal post as I did not want to have it associated with a blow up if its got nothing to do with the injector so not blaming bailey at all.
will have a busy weekend doing compression test this weekend I would say.Will let you know how it all goes

thanks for your input SWR

Cheers Harmsey

[Baileys Diesel Group Member Find all posts View Profile Close Baileys Diesel Group]

Keep us posted Harmsey, Here to help mate.

[harmsey Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close harmsey]

Ripped the tappet cover off and you were right SWR definite smell of diesel. Took the injectors out and turned it over, oil came out of number 3 and 4 but mainly number 4. Dropped the oil and collected 13 ltrs of diesel/oil (should be pretty clean in there now!!). No signs on metal in the sump! Woo Hoo!! Just hopping that I haven’t bent anything??
Ordering new parts today and hopefully have it back together on the weekend. There was no real obvious indication of where it was leaking or why? I used new genuine return rail seals and torqued them to 25nm and the same with the fuel rail to injector unions. Did not replace the fuel rails because it was the first time they had been removed since new but this will be the third time now. I have a copy of Techstream due to arrive any day soon so the car will not be driven without the fuel rail pressure test being performed. Lesson learned there!!
Questions?
Should I replace the fuel rails?
Can I pressure test the fuel rails without having to reassemble the whole thing? (Im thinking not)
Is 25mn the correct torque as I have since seen others recommend 32nm?
are these part numbers correct and is this all I should replace this time around?
#96721-19017 - O-ring Seal X4
#11176-30011 - Injection Nozzle Washer X4
#90904-30013 - Return line washer X5
#90209-10021 washers X4

Cheers Harmsey

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday harmsey

You need to fined (Confirm) where the fuel is being dumped from as it is clearly a big leak!!

As the fuel leak is obviously confined to the cam-cover i suspect it is either 1 x of the 5 x return leak-off washers or a cracked return line pipe its self.... this needs to be confirmed!

The part number for the actual injector fuel line leak-off return pipe is below

PIPE ASSY, NOZZLE LEAKAGE = 23760-30020 = amayama

The con-rods in the diesels are actually very strong and can take a hammering before you bend them! ..

If it was a petrol engine the odds are it would have bent the conrod for sure!

I used new genuine return rail seals and torqued them to 25nm and the same with the fuel rail to injector unions.

I think there is your problem with your torque settings!!!

Click on link below

Injector oil seals

Cheers

PS i sent you a PM can you read it

[harmsey Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close harmsey]

Well it’s all back together second time around and so far so good. It started easy, little bit of smoke on the first start up (as expected) but none since then. No rattle, more power and a very smooth idle.

Things I did different second time around

Torqued leak off rails to 16nm and 13 at the back (instead of 25nm)
Replaced the fuel rail with new ones from Baileys (genuine Toyota)
After I torqued up the leak off rail, I checked it for leaks by disconnecting the return line fuel hose and squirted some compressed air in to pressurise the line and sprayed the leak off rail with leak detector, the same as we use on oxy sets.

And finally I crossed my fingers!!

So I am pretty happy that I didn’t have total engine failure, must be a bloody strong bottom end on these motors. The noise it made when it hydrolocked had me thinking leg out of bed for sure!!

Still need to enter the calibration codes for the Bailey Injectors when my techstream arrives but its running very well at the moment (touching wood now!)
I also recon I will be checking my oil level every day

On a positive note my engine should be pretty clean inside now considering that it’s been driving around with 13lts of 50/50 diesel/oil mix!!

Also big thanks to Skywalkerun for all his feedback and advice!!!

And thanks to Matt and Helena at Baileys for some of the best service I have had in ages and a good set of injectors at a reasonable price!!

Will report back after a few 1000kms with some fuel figures

Cheers Harmsey

[Whitey1 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey1]

I'm starting to get nervous about my car again. Had my injectors replaced at about 110000km in Darwin because of the rattle. One was definitely out of spec.
Now at 150000km I think the rattle may be returning. Not happy if its the injectors again cause it cost me $3500 last time!
Currently in Dunsborough and about to head off to the Kimberly in a couple of weeks so really don't need the hassle or expense again. Makes me start thinking of trading to a petrol or an earlier model diesel.