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  • Common Rail system and additives

    Was discussing other matters with a diesel mechanic and asked him what was the best additive for my D4D.

    He was most definite that no additives should be added to the common rail diesel engines, as they would cause damage.

    There have been a few posts on the various additives to use , so has anyone heard the same comments as above.
    Pedro

    2007 D4D Auto

  • #2
    Yep, its in the Manual :!:
    07 Upgrade GXL D4D, Manual, Dune,Sov Bar, BFG's, SG11, Redark dual Batts, Extensive Aux wiring, Stebel, LED stop tails, IPF HID's (my mod), 240V Inv, ARB Comp, GME UHF,TPMS, Safari snorkel, GPS,Hilux washers, 40l Engel in 30% pas pos,homemade A/C cond protection plate, polyairs.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks clifton.

      Where in the manual :?:
      Pedro

      2007 D4D Auto

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Pedro,
        I remember seeing some weasel words written somewhere in the first section of the Warranty/Service manual about not needing fuel additives, but can't remember exactly.

        But I must admit I have used them for years in my diesel trucks and have never had fuel problems. And I will continue to do so with the D4D.

        If I lived down south in sub-tropical climes I would not bother.
        07 Upgrade GXL D4D, Manual, Dune,Sov Bar, BFG's, SG11, Redark dual Batts, Extensive Aux wiring, Stebel, LED stop tails, IPF HID's (my mod), 240V Inv, ARB Comp, GME UHF,TPMS, Safari snorkel, GPS,Hilux washers, 40l Engel in 30% pas pos,homemade A/C cond protection plate, polyairs.

        Comment


        • #5
          Get a service at Toyota & whats the 1st thing they want to add to the bill? Fuel additives, oil additives, all in the name of extra profit for them. I tell them that if its not listed in the sevice book I wont pay for it & they can either remove the additives eg( drain the fuel tank & refill it & change the engine oil & filter) or take the charge off the bill as I wont be paying for them, you can guess what they do.

          I have also asked the question what effect they additives have on warranty & as you would expect they say it doesnt effect warranty as they have added them :?:

          Any one else had this experience, I know its just not Toyota that does it as our Ford dealer does the same thing.
          2007 D4D auto, Tunit Power Module, Scan GaugeII, Bilsteins & lovels HD, raised 50mm front & 60mm rear, 10,000lb Tmax winch, 7/16th Amsteelblue synthetic 23,000lb winch cable, TiTan HD winch solenoid pack, Outback draws with fridge slide & 50 litre Waeco, Ryno roof rack & Alloy Cage & extra set of Rhino HD Roof bars x 3, TJM type 15 steel Bullbar powder coated silver, Dual battery setup with custom tray, Bosch Navigator spots with 55w HID kit, Sand Grabber mats, Toyota Tow Bar, Sensor Touch Electric Brakes, Cooper ST 265/70/17 tyres, Uniden remote head UHF radio, Modified Milford Cargo Barrier, Extra power points in the back run with 10mm wire for fridge & inverter, Anderson plugs with 10mm wire front & back for the camper & compresor conections. 7 inch in dash JVC DVD player with bluetooth & Ipod adaptor, 39DB Stebel High Power TM80/2 Magnum Electric Horns. JL Audio 300/4, 300/2 power amps, Pioneer TS-C160R front splits & TS-D161S rear speakers & 12" Pioneer sub

          Still need to fit some heavy duty engine & transmision gaurds, snorkel. 9inch headrest monitors

          Comment


          • #6
            I did not read the Warranty book, so thanks for pointing me in the right direction Clifton,.
            What is not covered by your Toyota New vehicle warranty" states

            Damage caused by improper or lack of maintenance, or the use of FUELS, oils, lubricants, coolants or FLUIDS other than those specified in the Owner's manual are not covered.

            Under "Helpful Questions and Answers"

            The answer to question "should I use fluid additives like coolants and fuel enhancers" states

            "Your toyota is engineered to perform at its best with Toyota genuine fluids and lubricants. Further additives are not necessary".

            The only part I can find in the owners manual (p 228)that relates to above is that the diesel should have a cetane number of 50 or higher, but there is no mention of fuel additives that i can see.

            Clifton the mechanic i spoke to said there was no problem with older diesel motors and additives , it was just the new common rail diesels, where no additives should be used .

            As an add on to my 20000 kms service the local dealer recommended a "car injector service " for which I was charged $53.
            When I rang them yesterday to ask what they had used they said "a Wyn's product".

            I am now writing to them (cc Toyota Australia) seeking their written assurance that in the event of damage caused by the additive that my warranty will not be affected.

            BP confirmed their Cetane rating in Queensland was 51 , and that all diesel from 1/1/09 would need to be at this rating.
            He also mentioned their Victorian office had received lots of calls from Prado owners about a "rattle"
            Probably relates to this thread

            http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?t=3107&start=0

            A reply from Caltex re Cetane

            "Caltex Ultral Low Sulphur Diesel must comply with the Australian Standard for diesel fuel, which has a Cetane Index specification of 46 minimum. However, in most instances, the Cetane Index is usually around 51 - 52 ( but not guaranteed - only that the Cetane Index will never fall below 46.) "
            Pedro

            2007 D4D Auto

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Pedro,
              Thanks for the info, I didn't get a chance to read the manual yesterday, I also checked the cetane number with our local BP agent, will be interested to hear the response you get from your Toyota dealer.
              07 Upgrade GXL D4D, Manual, Dune,Sov Bar, BFG's, SG11, Redark dual Batts, Extensive Aux wiring, Stebel, LED stop tails, IPF HID's (my mod), 240V Inv, ARB Comp, GME UHF,TPMS, Safari snorkel, GPS,Hilux washers, 40l Engel in 30% pas pos,homemade A/C cond protection plate, polyairs.

              Comment


              • #8
                I've been wondering whether anti-gel diesel additive is needed for trips to the snow to stop the diesel from glugging up. Any thoughts on whether this is a good idea?
                AndrewH
                08 Prado VX D4D, ARB bullbar, Warn 9.5XP winch, Bilstein/Lovell suspension, Polyair's, ARB diff locker & air pump, Safari snorkel, Ausguard cargo barrier, Lightforce 170 HID driving lights, GME TX3440 CB, Brown Davis bashplate, Sandgrabba Mats, Scanguage II, Rotronics independent 3 battery management (3rd in camper), Kenwood DDX8039 with Nav, Reversing camera and sensors, Blaupunkt compact powered woofer, Custom drawers, Bushman fridge, Cooper ATRs onroad & STTs offroad, PressurePro 6 wheel TPMS, Steinbauer Module.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Andrew,

                  you have a couple of options,

                  1. you really need to fill up the majority of your tank with alpine diesel fuel near the snow fields, especially if your staying overnight (gel and wax formation cant be good for our high pressure pump). The trick is that you leave home with enough fuel to get to the snow but the have the tank more empty than full, so the when you do fill up at the snow fields, its high concentration of alpine diesel, not regular diesel.

                  2. if that's difficult to coordinate (low tank level versus trip to snow) then the second option are additives. I frequent the snow a fair bit every winter and I use either Redline anti-gel or LiquiMoly flow improver and never had any issues even when she's under a foot of snow from overnight falls! These are the higher quality additives available but can be expensive. I see it as feeding the Prado with only the best. This solution means you can control the level of anti gel properties of your fuel when you leave home with a full 180 ltrs onboard.

                  cheers
                  Mardo
                  08 D4D Auto

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by yetiboy01
                    Get a service at Toyota & whats the 1st thing they want to add to the bill? Fuel additives, oil additives, all in the name of extra profit for them. I tell them that if its not listed in the sevice book I wont pay for it & they can either remove the additives eg( drain the fuel tank & refill it & change the engine oil & filter) or take the charge off the bill as I wont be paying for them, you can guess what they do.

                    I have also asked the question what effect they additives have on warranty & as you would expect they say it doesnt effect warranty as they have added them :?:

                    Any one else had this experience, I know its just not Toyota that does it as our Ford dealer does the same thing.
                    Thanks for the tip, just checked the service docket receipts and no charges for fuel/oil additives. Will keep an eye on them though.

                    Cheers
                    2005 TD GXL Auto

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mardo
                      Andrew,

                      you have a couple of options.....
                      Thanks for the good advice Mardo 8)
                      AndrewH
                      08 Prado VX D4D, ARB bullbar, Warn 9.5XP winch, Bilstein/Lovell suspension, Polyair's, ARB diff locker & air pump, Safari snorkel, Ausguard cargo barrier, Lightforce 170 HID driving lights, GME TX3440 CB, Brown Davis bashplate, Sandgrabba Mats, Scanguage II, Rotronics independent 3 battery management (3rd in camper), Kenwood DDX8039 with Nav, Reversing camera and sensors, Blaupunkt compact powered woofer, Custom drawers, Bushman fridge, Cooper ATRs onroad & STTs offroad, PressurePro 6 wheel TPMS, Steinbauer Module.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re my earlier post have received a response from Local office of Toyota dealership which read in part

                        Your 2007 Toyota Prado is fitted with the latest diesel D4D engine which we recommend to carry out an " on car diesel injection service" at regular intervals.
                        The reason we recommend this additional service is to help prevent the build up of deposits forming on the injectors, the combustion chambers and fuel delivery devices.
                        We believe this will help maintain the delivery of engine performance, fuel efficiency and prevent the fuel deposit build up.
                        In our opinion this additional industry recognized service will not reduce any new car warranty provisions.signed Local service Manager
                        Also received a response from Toyota Customer Relations Advisor setting out that any concerns with the work performed and /or costing of repairs must be addressed by the management of the Dealership direct.

                        They then added
                        We have forwarded a copy of your correspondence onto xxx & yyy Customer Relations & service manager Of their Head office to make them aware of my concerns and requested they respond and assist further.

                        WITH REFERENCE TO TOYOTA'S POSITION ON FUEL ADDITIVES WE ADVISE ; ANY DAMAGE CAUSED BY THE USE OF FUEL, OILS LUBRICANTS OR FLUIDS OTHER THAN THOSE SPECIFIED IN YOUR VEHICLES OWENERS MANUALS/WARRANTY & SERVICE BOOKLETS ARE NOT COVERED BY TOYOTA'S NEW VEHICLE WARRANTY


                        We reiterate our regret for the dissappintmenmt you express and thank you for writing to Toyota and allowing us this opportunity to respond
                        Await response from head office of dealership.
                        Pedro

                        2007 D4D Auto

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Have finally received response from Toyota Dealership which reads
                          Further to our recent telephone conversation........I wish to confirm that any damage that can be proven to be caused to your vehicle of rego No... by the use of Diesel Fuel cleaning agent on your vehicle service date 22/4/08 will be covered by our (dealership) guarantee.
                          TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION DO NOT COVER COSTS OF CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGE BY ANYTHING OTHER THAN A FAULT IN THEIR ORIGINAL VEHICLE MANUFACTURE.

                          Toyota distribute and recommend the use of Diesel Fuel Conditioners throughout their dealer network.
                          On the label Toyota states that the Toyota Diesel Fuel conditioner "ensures that injectors and filters always remain clean and free from plugging.Aids cold weather starts"

                          Our dealership has recommended the use of both Toyota and Industry leading Non-generic fuel cleaning agents selectively for over 10 years as an effective aid to maintaining a clean and efficient fuel system.

                          In this instance product used in the On car Diesel Fuel Injection service was a Wynns Australia cleaning agent
                          Product details...........
                          Signed Service Manager
                          At least my concerns have been addressed but it is interesting that on the surface Toyota promote their additive as ensuring that injectors are clean, but do not include it in their recommendation for use with new vedhicle and by default appear to get out of new car warranty if it , or any other additive,is used.
                          Pedro

                          2007 D4D Auto

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Common Rail system and additives

                            I put my D4D in for its very overdue 10k service (I skipped the 1k) last week. The first question was "do you want the recommended fuel additive for only $17?" When I asked if this was a 10,000km thing or a cover up for the injector problem he replied "every 2nd fillup". So I declined.

                            Is anyone else with a 2008 build (which is supposed to be beyong the injector problem) using diesel additives? If so, what do you use and how often?
                            2012 GXL Diesel Auto.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Common Rail system and additives

                              Originally posted by whiteman
                              I put my D4D in for its very overdue 10k service (I skipped the 1k) last week. The first question was "do you want the recommended fuel additive for only $17?" When I asked if this was a 10,000km thing or a cover up for the injector problem he replied "every 2nd fillup". So I declined.

                              Is anyone else with a 2008 build (which is supposed to be beyong the injector problem) using diesel additives? If so, what do you use and how often?
                              I was advised by two separate Toyota service departments not to use any additives in the D4D.
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