Opinions on Old 3.0 Diesel to D4D

[toddcpo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close toddcpo]

Hi all,
I am in a rut as to what direction to head now. I have read through this site, love the mods, love the prados, BUT, I cannot for the life of me decide on weather to get a pre 06 3.0 litre or go post 06 with the D4D. I know i want a manual, so running gear isnt the issue, its whats under the hood, I want realiabilty. The reason i am so unsure is cause i have always had patrols and knew exactly what i was going for, however, with a new beast comes new concerns.

Can you guys give me your honest opinions on both motors and how they run in the prados, particularly if you have had both. I know what the stats say on paper but i like to listen to the people who actually use them on a daily basis, ie; what they feel are the issues, any problems they have had etc etc. When i decide, mine will be used as daily driver, traveller and the odd weekend warrior and slowly be modded up to suit. Any opinions on the chips would be great too.

Thanx.

[xvprado Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close xvprado]

Re: Opinions on Old 3.0 Diesel to D4D

I have driven both extensively.The newer one is flasher and alot quieter... The older one is louder, but alot more reliable in the bush..

My 2 cents..

what are the individual points of "reliability in the bush" Matt ?

The essential difference in the two motors is the fuel delivery system
The D4D has had significant issues with injectors that u]seem[/u] to being overcome as the motor progresses, a bit like most new models these days, unfortunately
The previous motor has a time proven level of reliability, because its been around a long time
I would be confident that the D4D in Europe is now to a point where it can start making similar claims, In Aust i think thats still some way off primarily because of our distinctly different fuel characterisitcs
My personal opinion, in 2004 I bought a petrol because i couldnt see the diesel being a daily driver in city traffic, it was just a bit of a boring proposition around town
In 2007 I bought the D4D and think it was a good decision, thoroughly enjoy it as a city commute and greatly enjoy the benefits off road with a few extra killer wasps and ponies

[stewy Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close stewy]

Re: Opinions on Old 3.0 Diesel to D4D

Hi all,
I am in a rut as to what direction to head now. I have read through this site, love the mods, love the prados, BUT, I cannot for the life of me decide on weather to get a pre 06 3.0 litre or go post 06 with the D4D. I know i want a manual, so running gear isnt the issue, its whats under the hood, I want realiabilty. The reason i am so unsure is cause i have always had patrols and knew exactly what i was going for, however, with a new beast comes new concerns.

Can you guys give me your honest opinions on both motors and how they run in the prados, particularly if you have had both. I know what the stats say on paper but i like to listen to the people who actually use them on a daily basis, ie; what they feel are the issues, any problems they have had etc etc. When i decide, mine will be used as daily driver, traveller and the odd weekend warrior and slowly be modded up to suit. Any opinions on the chips would be great too.

Thanx.

Toddcpo,

Back to your original questions on the old versus the new and the like.
Some of us on this forum have had problems with injectors and the like, but they seem to be getting resolved under warranty.

The old motor was and still is a top performer and very reliable.
I've driven a late Turbo Diesel 90 series, and whilst it performs well. The power/torque and quiteness from the D4D was more appealing and performed better.
I now have an 08 model D4D 6spd Manual, and believe that the newer series 2 update for the 120 series is a better option.
I haven't had any mechanical or engine concerns to date yet, and don't have any regrets.
The 4.0ltr V6 Petrol I had previously in my 05 Hilux was a great performer, but it used around town an avg of 14.5 ltrs/100klms of petrol. This would be similiar on the 120 series in Petrol, and have heard that the Auto's run at up 17-18ltrs/per 100klms. Friends of mine reported towing a caravan using 20-30ltrs/per 100klms with the petrol....yikes.

I use my vehicle as a daily driver around the city, and the D4D gets me on avg 10.4 ltr/100klms as a comparison.
It does mid to high 9's on the highway.
With the 180ltrs of fuel on board, that's close to 1800klms of driving. This means I only need to fill her up once a month. Even when it's loaded for trips away etc, the extra weight doesn't seem to worry it.

As far as chipping the D4D, It's personal preference. I haven't found the need as the power/torque from the motor is enough.
The 6spd manual takes a bit of getting used to at first. If your used to 5spds then finding reverse on a 6spd has a different shift pattern. I constantly forget that I leave it in reverse gear, as Reverse looks like 1st at a glance.
Usually it likes to sit in 5th gear for round town cruising if your doing up to 80klms as 4th gear starts to rev a little high at 65-75klm. Top gear is really just for the open highway. The clutch feels better and is heavier on the Prado manual as apposed to Hilux 5spd Manual. I had the throw out bearing and pressure plates done twice under warrantly with the Hilux.
So far the clutch in the prado still feels good. I had concerns with toyota clutches when I bought another manual this time round, but to date no problems.

Just prior to the Prado I did test drive a GU Common Rail 3.0ltr ST Patrol. Apart of the interior appeal with the prado, the differences in the 2 vehicles just on engine performance was enough to sway me to the Prado.
1st and 2nd in the GU bogged down and was sluggish, whilst the Prado D4D took off like a rocket.
For city driving depending on your style, I wanted something a bit more zippier.
Maybe it was the weight of the Patrol, gearing etc. but it didn't compare well on engine power/torque, fuel consumption and fuel reserves(tank size).

A good option for you if its a case of $$$ could be to buy the older series 120 with the 1KZ and chip it.
The purchase price would be cheaper than a D4D model.
I know of people who've done this and are very happy.
In my case it had to be a new, so not really a choice of which model, only in what 4WD to buy.

Hope I haven't bored you too much. I've tried to give you an honest opinion. All you need to do is make up your own mind.
Test drive both and go with your gut.

Cheers

[toddcpo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close toddcpo]

Re: Opinions on Old 3.0 Diesel to D4D

Hi again,
Guys thanx for your honest opinions, I didnt realise the older motor was so reliable. I too had a 4.0 Litre Petrol Hilux back in 07 and the reason i got rid of it was fuel consumption, boy did it like the juice.
I think i may have to drive both now and figure what i like, currently my eyes are on an 05 or 06 prado.

More opinions are definitely welcome as you can never have too many views. Thanx again to the guys that have posted, ou have given me something to stew on.

[Signature035 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Signature035]

Re: Opinions on Old 3.0 Diesel to D4D

I have a DP Chipped 04 Diesel, which I love....... incredibly reliable, and pulls all day without any complaint, we tow a lot. I have no complaints at all with the old diesel.

Given the choice though........ if I could justify the expense, I would upgrade to a D4D. Just for the additional power and fuel savings.

[toddcpo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close toddcpo]

Re: Opinions on Old 3.0 Diesel to D4D

Rob,
What kind of consumption do you get for your 04 prado without towing? Would be interested to know your stats with the chip in.

[Guest Close Guest]

Re: Opinions on Old 3.0 Diesel to D4D

Also consider the servicing costs.
Old 3.0L needs an oil change every 5000km. D4D is now 10,000km (or so I'm told).

[xvprado Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close xvprado]

Re: Opinions on Old 3.0 Diesel to D4D

As a diesel mechanic, I know that I could sort out most fuel problems that might occur on the old engine. The new fuel system and turbo system is a completely different ballgame.

That's what I mean...

So youre talking about serviceability and not reliability I think

Back to topic......
The discussion on what to buy in the two diesels is really a bit academic, if youre happy with the overall performance of the old motor, youre on a winner, they are a very good thing
The D4d just offers a level of refinement that you would expect from technology advancement, that in itself briongs all the gremlins of increased performance and increased stress on engine and componentry
Time will be the judge of the D4D I guess

[toddcpo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close toddcpo]

Re: Opinions on Old 3.0 Diesel to D4D

What are the electrics like on the newer models with the D4D. As we advance in Technology so does those components. I know with the 200 series cruiser your in trouble out in the bush if that side of things stuffs up. Whats it like with the prados and the D4D?

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: Opinions on Old 3.0 Diesel to D4D

Also consider the servicing costs.
Old 3.0L needs an oil change every 5000km. D4D is now 10,000km (or so I'm told).

The extra service is oil only (as the 1kz is a high soot engine) 6lts of oil @ say $30, do the change yourself and over say 200,000km the "Extra" servicing only costs $600... SFA in the scheme of things.


Same goes for economy.... the D4d is 20% economical.... however you are going to be looking at around $10k+ difference for purchasing either the 1kz or d4d in an equivalent model. That's enough to buy more than 8000lts of diesel, that easily cancels out any savings on economy.

What are the electrics like on the newer models with the D4D. As we advance in Technology so does those components. I know with the 200 series cruiser your in trouble out in the bush if that side of things stuffs up. Whats it like with the prados and the D4D?

Much of a muchness.... the d4d can be thought as full EFI like a petrol car, the 1kz as single point EFI like some early EFI cars... either way fry the electrics or ECU and you won't be going anywhere. Modern electronics are very reliable though.


So in the end it comes down to the mechanicals and the refinement ... and also money. The D4D is more expensive but a better drive in many ways, it drives much like a petrol car and can be quite nippy around town in traffic... the one 1kz is old school but solid as a rock, it is a 20 year old motor that in this day and age should only be running a bore pump or gen set, not a modern motor vehicle. But it gets the job done and runs on any old crap fuel.

Grey imports and some 90 series 1kz's had issues with cracking heads, but as a percentage it's a small number. The D4D has the well known injector issue (Also a problem in Europe by the way) and we have seen a few on here now with broken gearboxes and clutch issues with the 6 speed manual.

Mick

[adrian5800 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close adrian5800]

Re: Opinions on Old 3.0 Diesel to D4D

Hi all,
I am in a rut as to what direction to head now. I have read through this site, love the mods, love the prados, BUT, I cannot for the life of me decide on weather to get a pre 06 3.0 litre or go post 06 with the D4D. I know i want a manual, so running gear isnt the issue, its whats under the hood, I want realiabilty. The reason i am so unsure is cause i have always had patrols and knew exactly what i was going for, however, with a new beast comes new concerns.

Can you guys give me your honest opinions on both motors and how they run in the prados, particularly if you have had both. I know what the stats say on paper but i like to listen to the people who actually use them on a daily basis, ie; what they feel are the issues, any problems they have had etc etc. When i decide, mine will be used as daily driver, traveller and the odd weekend warrior and slowly be modded up to suit. Any opinions on the chips would be great too.

Thanx.

Hi Todd
I was in a similar position to you 12 months ago, should I favour the slightly lower fuel consumption and better torque/power of the D4D over the 1KZ? Being diesel mechanic like PradoGLX I went for a 1KZ engined, late '04 build manual - proven reliability with cheaper, easier to overhaul/replace components. Has anyone with a D4D, priced up injectors that will later on need replacement as a matter of course? I don't know if it is common knowledge, but these injectors aren't recondition-able. It's fine now that Toyota are sorting out their noisy engines but what are customers going to do when the warranty runs out?

I have to disagree with PradoGLX, IMHO the D4D is a noisier engine than the 1KZ. Where I work we have a great deal of Isuzu trucks that are common rail and the pilot injection on these motors make them rattle their heads off almost, the first batch we got a few years ago went back to the dealer for this issue and their response was that they were within specification. (Pilot injection is a small amount of fuel injected in common rail engines well before TDC to help reduce NOX)

Servicing costs for me wasn't an issue but like MickL says it's just 7L of engine oil every 5K so no big deal if you change it yourself.

I have chipped mine and the torque improvement is very pronounced, without putting in on a dyno i would say it's as torquey as a D4D but the specs from steinbauer say it should be a bit better. Next on the list is a custom dump pipe..

Regards

Adrian

[toddcpo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close toddcpo]

Re: Opinions on Old 3.0 Diesel to D4D

Thanx Mick and Adrian,
I have to say its great to get some opinions from actual mechanics as well. Adrian I think you have sold me on the older diesel as being reliable. Yes i can do my own oil changes, thats the least of my worries! HAHA

I am not sure if there has been a decent in depth opinion thread on the motors. I know people throw in their opinion here and there but i think its good to have a dedicated one thats i one place, especially for the new Prado owner wanna bees amongst us.. I am definitely going to be alot more at ease with whatever decision i make as to which one to buy. Unfortunately until my science skills come into play and i invent that elusive money tree, OR, i start seeing prices on 06 and later prados come in line with the red book guide, i think i may be going with pre 06. I will definitetly be chipping it and doing the exhaust with dump pipe.

I did have to laugh though when mick mentioned that the older motors should be used as bore pumps or gen motors! haha

Again, thanx for all those who have posted, I hope this thread stays open as i am sure there may be more questions out there, or at least some different opinions and personal likes and dislikes.

Todd

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

Re: Opinions on Old 3.0 Diesel to D4D

Gotta go with the technology. The D4D is miles ahead of my 90 series V6 petrol. In a couple of years the D4D will be surpassed yet again and the same arguments will still be raging on.

If you can afford it get the latest. The injector woes seem to be limited to earlier spec D4Ds of 06, 07 and early 08 run models.

The sheet metal is a little thinner and the plastic ware is a little bit more susceptable to damage than the 90 series but overall it's a magnificent machine. The Patrool is a bit heavier and outwardly bigger but what do you really want? At work, everyone prefers the Prados to the Nissans. The Prado is miles ahead in economy too.

[Hibbo Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hibbo]

Re: Opinions on Old 3.0 Diesel to D4D

Todd

I too am in the same position as you, and after much test driving of the old a new Prados, i am sold on the D4D. I am thinking too myself however, that hopefully in a couple of months when the new model is released, there will be many peaople trading in their 3 year old D4D for a new car, putting more D4D's on the market and hence a bit of price dropping. Only time will tell, but i am willing to wait it out. thats MHO.

[toddcpo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close toddcpo]

Re: Opinions on Old 3.0 Diesel to D4D

Thanx Hibbo,
I forgot the new model was coming out soon. Hmmmm not sure if i can wait though, unfortunately the timing for me getting a prado has to coincide with a few other things happening so its a waiting game for me at the moment. But as you say, time will tell. I will keep my fingers, eyes, toes and legs crossed that thats the case.