3.0D-4D sensitivity to poor quality diesel

[prettorian Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close prettorian]

Hi,
I want to ask you for your opinion on sensitivity this 3.0D-4D diesel engine on poor quality diesel. For example in Africa is often diesel mixed with watter etc. Older engine like 4.2TD in LC80 do not have problem with it but this 3.0D-4D is Common Rail and it can damage it. How can I prevent my engine? For example by some aditives? Or how?
Thanks for your opinion.

[clifton Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close clifton]

Re: 3.0D-4D sensitivity to poor quality diesel

Hi,
I want to ask you for your opinion on sensitivity this 3.0D-4D diesel engine on poor quality diesel. For example in Africa is often diesel mixed with watter etc. Older engine like 4.2TD in LC80 do not have problem with it but this 3.0D-4D is Common Rail and it can damage it. How can I prevent my engine? For example by some aditives? Or how?
Thanks for your opinion.

Hi Prettorian,
The D4D engine fuel injection system will not tolerate poor quality fuel or fuel contaminated with water, I would fit an additional filter/ water separator with drain tap such as CAV or Parker Haniffin fitted upstream of the Toyota underbonnet spin-on secondary fuel filter and regularly change the CAV or Parker Hannifin filter cartridge at 5,000km's intervals.

[prettorian Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close prettorian]

Re: 3.0D-4D sensitivity to poor quality diesel

Hi,
I want to ask you for your opinion on sensitivity this 3.0D-4D diesel engine on poor quality diesel. For example in Africa is often diesel mixed with watter etc. Older engine like 4.2TD in LC80 do not have problem with it but this 3.0D-4D is Common Rail and it can damage it. How can I prevent my engine? For example by some aditives? Or how?
Thanks for your opinion.

Hi Prettorian,
The D4D engine fuel injection system will not tolerate poor quality fuel or fuel contaminated with water, I would fit an additional filter/ water separator with drain tap such as CAV or Parker Haniffin fitted upstream of the Toyota underbonnet spin-on secondary fuel filter and regularly change the CAV or Parker Hannifin filter cartridge at 5,000km's intervals.

Could you send me some links to these filters please? I have not heard about this yet.
If I understand you, I should have one fuel filter which separate dirtiness from poor diesel and then second filter which separate watter?
thanks a lot

[Davros Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Davros]

Re: 3.0D-4D sensitivity to poor quality diesel

Here you go.
These filters are not reccomended for use on thier own. You use them in tandem with your existing filter, and as mentioned above, before the toyota filter. They are great if you have to use suspect fuel because they seperate the water so well and protect the toyota filter from water contamination. The toyota filter can then work as intended.... to filter out the really fine abrasive particles under 5 micron. The replacement cartridges are only a few dollars. I have fitted this unit to my vehicle, and carry several spare cartridges, just in case. Very cheap insurance.


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Single-CAV-Di...item5ad60940ce

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

Re: 3.0D-4D sensitivity to poor quality diesel

Here you go.
These filters are not reccomended for use on thier own. You use them in tandem with your existing filter, and as mentioned above, before the toyota filter. They are great if you have to use suspect fuel because they seperate the water so well and protect the toyota filter from water contamination. The toyota filter can then work as intended.... to filter out the really fine abrasive particles under 5 micron. The replacement cartridges are only a few dollars. I have fitted this unit to my vehicle, and carry several spare cartridges, just in case. Very cheap insurance.


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Single-CAV-Di...item5ad60940ce

Quote from eBay link 'However it is not recommended for electronic controlled or common rail diesel engines '...

[clifton Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close clifton]

Re: 3.0D-4D sensitivity to poor quality diesel

Hi Prettorian,
The fuel filter and water separator are one combined unit similar in size to the Toyota unit but without the priming pump, you fit the filter assembly in line upstream of the existing Toyota Fuel filter. The alloy filter housing is bolted to the engine firewall/bulkhead and plumbed into the upstream fuel inlet hose to the Toyota filter using certified fuel hoses. The replaceable filter cartridge is screwed onto the alloy housing and a clear plastic, glass or alloy bowl (the water and sediment collector) screws on underneath the filter cartridge. The filter cartridge is a spin - off design as is the sediment bowl, both are sealed by simple replaceable O-Rings. A drain valve is located in the base of the sediment bowl to allow you to drain off water or sediment as required.
These filters were invented by CAV but are now sold under many licenced companies e.g. Paker, Delphi, Lucas, Racor, Wix to name a few, the Micron rating is normally 7-9um,s which is not suitable for a Common Rail system as a final filter but the aim is to use the filter to catch the water and sediment prior to reaching the Toyota filter.
There is a slight restriction in fuel flow due to the additional filter, I have seen this idea used successfully in Toyota hilux D4D engines a detuned Prado engine.
There are many websites both Automotive and Marine selling these filters do a search in Google and select the one nearest to you for convenience they are a very common filter used in many diesel installations.
Looks like Davros beat me to the response but he is spot on.

[Davros Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Davros]

Re: 3.0D-4D sensitivity to poor quality diesel

Quote from eBay link 'However it is not recommended for electronic controlled or common rail diesel engines '...

That is correct if you were to replace the existing spin on filter, but as previously explained, that is not the case here.

[adrian5800 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close adrian5800]

Re: 3.0D-4D sensitivity to poor quality diesel

Hi,
I want to ask you for your opinion on sensitivity this 3.0D-4D diesel engine on poor quality diesel. For example in Africa is often diesel mixed with watter etc. Older engine like 4.2TD in LC80 do not have problem with it but this 3.0D-4D is Common Rail and it can damage it. How can I prevent my engine? For example by some aditives? Or how?
Thanks for your opinion.

Hi Prettorian,
The D4D engine fuel injection system will not tolerate poor quality fuel or fuel contaminated with water, I would fit an additional filter/ water separator with drain tap such as CAV or Parker Haniffin fitted upstream of the Toyota underbonnet spin-on secondary fuel filter and regularly change the CAV or Parker Hannifin filter cartridge at 5,000km's intervals.

Here you go.
These filters are not reccomended for use on thier own. You use them in tandem with your existing filter, and as mentioned above, before the toyota filter. They are great if you have to use suspect fuel because they seperate the water so well and protect the toyota filter from water contamination. The toyota filter can then work as intended.... to filter out the really fine abrasive particles under 5 micron. The replacement cartridges are only a few dollars. I have fitted this unit to my vehicle, and carry several spare cartridges, just in case. Very cheap insurance.


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Single-CAV-Di...item5ad60940ce

Quote from eBay link 'However it is not recommended for electronic controlled or common rail diesel engines '...

The other reason they aren't recommended for any rotary pump (bosch VE type) or common rail system is the reduced flow through the pump. These pumps rely on this through flow to cool and lubricate the pump assy - reduce this flow and you reduce the service life of the pump.
You are much better off fitting a water trap or agglomerator ahead of the OEM fuel filter, fitted with a float/electrode to warn of contamination.

Hi,
I want to ask you for your opinion on sensitivity this 3.0D-4D diesel engine on poor quality diesel. For example in Africa is often diesel mixed with watter etc. Older engine like 4.2TD in LC80 do not have problem with it but this 3.0D-4D is Common Rail and it can damage it. How can I prevent my engine? For example by some aditives? Or how?
Thanks for your opinion.

Any diesel injection system will be damaged by water.

Regards

Adrian (diesel mechanic) 8)

[karrathaprado2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close karrathaprado2]

Re: 3.0D-4D sensitivity to poor quality diesel

Pedro did this and I did this too. It works well - Karrathaprado2


Bit the bullet and had one (called a Water Sedimenter) installed today by designer of unit Alan Clare of Labrador Fuel injection (gold coast) Ph 07 55 637 844.

This photo shows the unit sitting next to the vehicle fuel filter



And this is the alert which flashes and beeps if there is water, or black algae in fuel.



It is similar to a Cav filter , on my boat, with a sensor.
The sensor beeps for a few seconds, when motor is started to alert driver that sedimenter is on.

Whilst sensor will not activate when foreign bodies are trapped at least they can be seen and removed before entering the fuel system.

The benefit I saw was that whilst the Toyota fuel filter has a drain point and a sensor this sensor is a light on the dash and , as explained by the manufacturer of unit, once a tiny bit of water gets into fuel system of vehicle it is too late and damage has occured.

Apparently the new common rail system is very sensitive to this fuel contamination .

If water is detected if key is turned on alert will continue to beep while water is in bottom of sedimenter.
Once water has been cleared beeper stops and journey can be safely continued.
If beeping starts further down the track drain the water until beeper stops and continue this procedure until assistance with clearing contaminated fuel can be given.

Told Alan I would let Pradopoint members know of this and he said he would look after members, price wise, if they mentioned "Pedro" and Pradopoint.
He said he can post the kit interstate with fitting instructions.
Pedro

2007 D4D Auto
Pedro

[prettorian Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close prettorian]

Re: 3.0D-4D sensitivity to poor quality diesel

Thanks a lot to all of you. Nobody give me these information till now. It seems I will be able to let this Prado 120 and I don't need to buy old offroad. I was worried the most of breaking engine because of poor quality of diesel. So if this is the solution, I can take my Prado to Africa and be worried maximum of kidnappers

The second problem which I have with my Prado is air suspension in back. I will have to remove it and put the OEM or Ironman suspension. In official Toyota servis they told me it is very difficult rebuild so It will cost a lot, so I will see.
I am the most satisfied with this car, it is 2005 and has 100 000 km. And now I have a new engine because there was some manufacturing defect and engine went down. So Toyota replace it after 4 years using for free !! Very nice.

[prettorian Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close prettorian]

Re: 3.0D-4D sensitivity to poor quality diesel

And one more question. This filter mentiond above which separate watter, does it also separate rough dirtiness in diesel?
Thanks

[adrian5800 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close adrian5800]

Re: 3.0D-4D sensitivity to poor quality diesel

And one more question. This filter mentiond above which separate watter, does it also separate rough dirtiness in diesel?
Thanks

The CAV style agglomerator will remove some of the dirt in the fuel but should never replace the fuel filter. Here's a link to the type I have fitted on my Prado
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CAV-D...042110010r6488
In the aluminium section there is a cone that the fuel passes over the edge of, in doing so the fuel slows down and the particles of dirt and moisture settle out and fall to the bottom of the glass bowl. The only disadvantage of this type is it doesn't include a switch or electrode to indicate water presence. The one Karrathaprado2 fitted is better in this regard.

Adrian

[prettorian Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close prettorian]

Re: 3.0D-4D sensitivity to poor quality diesel

I have just found out that LC 90 has this filter in basis. So also LC 120 should has it. There is control light on a dashboard.

[dereki Member Find all posts View Profile Close dereki]

Re: 3.0D-4D sensitivity to poor quality diesel

I was in TJM and the kids were off watching this video... impressive if it is true. But you know advertising videos.
Apparently filters water and rubbish out of the fuel.

http://www.mrfunnel.com/Mr._Funnel/Home.html

[karrathaprado2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close karrathaprado2]

Re: 3.0D-4D sensitivity to poor quality diesel

Nothing like us 'Septic Tanks' to come up with it. Makes sense and I would buy one to try and see if it worked at home. I would do the same test to see if it worked before I would take it out on the road and depend on just that. That couple with the bowl separator would be a plus.