1kz chip facts

[IMm29 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close IMm29]

Re: 1kz chip facts

so what you're saying, if one was to wind up the boost on a diesel engine (by whatever means...boost solenoid or even a t-piece off the actuator) the factory ECU would recognise the extra air coming in and thus compensate this by allowing more fuel in and by that making more power?

Not sure how it worked on MickL's rig though.

In my rig's case, when we just fitted the manual boost controller and dialled it up to 1.0 bar, the ECU would sense overboost, trigger the CEL and cut the power. I could feel the quick initial boost up to 1.0 bar, but then it would slow down. Getting to 120 kph was almost impossible no matter how long the road was.

We had to install an additional check valve to "fool" the ecu into thinking that it was still just boosting up to stock 0.7 bar. The boost gauge is reading the true boost.

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: 1kz chip facts

so what you're saying, if one was to wind up the boost on a diesel engine (by whatever means...boost solenoid or even a t-piece off the actuator) the factory ECU would recognise the extra air coming in and thus compensate this by allowing more fuel in and by that making more power?

No, not what I'm saying. I'm saying running higher boost will not have the same effect on a diesel as on a petrol engine.

If you wind the boost up on a diesel it will do absolutely nothing unless there is enough fuel available to make more power. It won't lean out and destroy pistons like a petrol car.

Fitting a boost controller and running a couple of PSI more on a standed Prado 1kz will make a small increase in power because Toyota tend to tune on the fuel heavy side.
If you have a chip then even more fuel is being tipped in, so you can take advantage of this with even a little more boost.

The ECU on the 1kz is primitive by modern standards and does not have the ability to tune to, or learn higher boost levels. It runs a fixed fuel and timing curve and only uses the input sensors (boost, temp etc etc) to compensate for these varibles, but only to a point. The ECU boost sensor is only used as a reference for the rising rate of fuel increase (how fast boost is rising and at what level) Once you get past 10 psi (what the max boost the ECU fuel curve is progammed to) the ECU will not add extra fuel.

In my rig's case, when we just fitted the manual boost controller and dialled it up to 1.0 bar, the ECU would sense overboost, trigger the CEL and cut the power. I could feel the quick initial boost up to 1.0 bar, but then it would slow down. Getting to 120 kph was almost impossible no matter how long the road was

The ECU actually sensed a faulty boost sensor (out of range) and went into limp home mode. The actual sensor is only able to sense up to 14.7psi/1bar.

Mick

[IMm29 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close IMm29]

Re: 1kz chip facts

The ECU actually sensed a faulty boost sensor (out of range) and went into limp home mode. The actual sensor is only able to sense up to 14.7psi/1bar.

Mick

There you go. Thing is, we only cranked it up to 14.7 psi, so I suppose the tolerance for the units we have in the Philippines is less than 1.0 bar.

And about the limp home mode, the light went out after I stopped pushing. For as long as I wasn't flooring the throttle, the light remained off.

Thing is, for a 1KZ-TE with more boost (until cut off, that is) and a bigger exhaust, keeping the speeds low on open roads is boring.

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: 1kz chip facts

Thing is, we only cranked it up to 14.7 psi, so I suppose the tolerance for the units we have in the Philippines is less than 1.0 bar.

It's a mass produced, cheap sensor, so may be just the tolerance of it.... some go a little under, some a little over. Could be your boost gauge reading a little low too. None of these things are scientific instruments. I have a relatively expensive "Autometer" gauge and it's 1psi out when tested against a calibrated test gauge.

And about the limp home mode, the light went out after I stopped pushing. For as long as I wasn't flooring the throttle, the light remained off.

That's correct.... you back off the throttle and boost drops back a little and the ECU sees the sensor back in range and functioning as normal (ie; problem fixed)
It would have logged the fault code in it's memory though, Code 35 from memory.

Mick

[pjorek Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close pjorek]

Re: 1kz chip facts

So MickL in this case is there a piggy back ecu available to add more fuel whilst (and the better piggy backs do this i believe) adding some extra boost? If such exists, surely nothing stops a person to exchange to turbo to something bigger and dyno tune it?

sorry ive spent most of my life tuning petrol cars and this "just add boost and extra fuel and she'll be right" is something hard to comprehend. Petrol engines make their power when they run lean....lean enough not to ping hence the whole attention to safety and putting the car on the dyno to check A/F ratios + timing.

Lastly if more fuel + boost are the simplest way of making power why not increase the pressure of the fuel being delivered via the injectors?

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: 1kz chip facts

So MickL in this case is there a piggy back ecu available to add more fuel whilst (and the better piggy backs do this i believe) adding some extra boost? If such exists, surely nothing stops a person to exchange to turbo to something bigger and dyno tune it?

All the "chips" on the market add more fuel one way or the other. They are all piggy back style, either pre or post factory ECU. Using the word "chip" is a little deceiving as it's not like changing over the EPROM in a Commodore ECU for example. Most are plug and play, some wire in. None require opening the ECU case.

The factory set up on the 1kz is a pneumatic waste gate with no ECU boost control. The only way to turn up the boost is with a boost controller teed into the waste gate line. Therefore no "Chip" on the market has the ability to alter boost settings on the 1kz.

If you’re going down this route then the pick of the "Chips" is one that has multiple settings (along the lines of the DP Chip). This allows you some level of "Tuning"

On the topic of changing turbo;
Not that easy and possibly not worth while on a $ to output ratio.

Firstly there is no bolt on turbo to upgrade the factory CT20, you would have to build a custom manifold to change to something bigger or with ball bearings. Also even building a hybrid CT20 is not an easy task, even though Toyota uses this turbo on several petrol motors they have never published any data on them so it's hard to mix and match. Stay away from the CT20 with ceramic impellers; they are well known to self destruct at raised boost levels.

Secondly the 1kz is a very primitive engine, it basically doesn’t flow well and there’s very little scope for head mods such as porting or bigger valves so the benefits of a bigger turbo may not be fully realised; but you may very well create a laggy bastard of an engine with no bottom end.

sorry ive spent most of my life tuning petrol cars and this "just add boost and extra fuel and she'll be right" is something hard to comprehend. Petrol engines make their power when they run lean....lean enough not to ping hence the whole attention to safety and putting the car on the dyno to check A/F ratios + timing.

Me too, it just takes a little to get your head around it. In its simplest form a diesel engine has no throttle butterfly, the engine is controlled by increasing or reducing the amount of diesel injected into the cylinder. So, to a point more fuel = more power, but there is a point when too much fuel starts causing issues (that issue being high combustion temperatures or Exhaust gas temperatures (EGTs) as we like to call it)

"just add boost and extra fuel and she'll be right"

I certainly hope I never gave the impression of “She’ll be right” no matter what shonky modifications are done. All performance modifications have an effect on your engine, some cause more stress and can reduce reliability or engine life. Take it too far and just like a petrol you’ll end up with a “Bang” and tears.

In any thread I’ve written on mods to the 1kz (or any diesel) I’ve always been careful to stress the point of sensible modification, and taking certain pre-cautions. The two main things you have to do BEFORE any performance mod is to fit a quality boost and EGT gauges and establish a base line, worst case, full load EGT for your vehicle. Keep your 1kz in the 600-700 degree Celsius range (full load/power) and your pistons are safe from meltdown.

Remember your not building a quarter mile racer, it’s about sensible gains. Exhaust+Filter+Off the shelf piggy back ECU+small boost increase(3-4psi) to take full advantage of the extra fuel. Expect 30-40% gain.

"Lastly if more fuel + boost are the simplest way of making power why not increase the pressure of the fuel being delivered via the injectors?

This is exactly how it’s done in its simplest form. The cheap and nasty chips for the common rail style engines do this. It’s not ideal but it works.
Pre electronic management you simply turned up the fuel screw on the injection pump to add more fuel. The 1KZ-TE has an electronically controlled pump (think of it as single point petrol EFI)which means your only simple choice is a piggy back ECU.

Newer common rail engines (think multi point petrol EFI) also require ECU mods to achieve more fuel/timing changes.

While I remember – another over looked advantage of fitting a shuttle valve style bleed valve boost controller (apart from the sub $50 cost) is the fact it brings on boost faster/sooner by reducing waste gate creep.

Sheesh... a long post ... hopefully not too boring and it all makes sense (well I know what I mean)

Mick

[tassie tiger Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close tassie tiger]

Re: 1kz chip facts

Hi Mick,

Thanks for your balanced and relatively succinct summary of the 1kz and mods.

Cheers

TT

[Auto-Craft Inactive Find all posts View Profile Close Auto-Craft]

Re: 1kz chip facts

Spacing the wategate can also help with more power, reliably, when max boost can be an issue, and helps alter the boost curve, apart from managing the boost level, with something adjustable.

With an efficient intercooler, no restrictions, a good exhaust and dump pipe which isnt restrictive, then 4mm might be the magic No 8)

Personally, from all the ones tried and tested, Dtronic, or Steinbouer are the 2 I would use on my own car.

Were I to be a grey heaired tootler who is always 10 kph under the limit, and tow a very small van, and not up north in high ambient temps, and I was niave, then any one would probably give me some impreovement, but if I didnt really need it to sit 10kph under the limit, why would I buy even a $595 unit ?

As much as some, like in the 4wdknuckledraggers forum, were reluctant to believe, they came around eventiually, though they still didnt like to admit they were confused, but some of these people probably dont realise some of us looked at the same import opportunites others took, and had in depth knowledge of exactly what it was we decided not to sell, and exactly what we decided we would.

Every product gets evaluated the same, if we wouldnt run it on our car, we wont sell it.

[IMm29 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close IMm29]

Re: 1kz chip facts

It's a mass produced, cheap sensor, so may be just the tolerance of it.... some go a little under, some a little over. Could be your boost gauge reading a little low too. None of these things are scientific instruments. I have a relatively expensive "Autometer" gauge and it's 1psi out when tested against a calibrated test gauge.

That's correct.... you back off the throttle and boost drops back a little and the ECU sees the sensor back in range and functioning as normal (ie; problem fixed)
It would have logged the fault code in it's memory though, Code 35 from memory.

Mick

Thanks for the clarifications, Mick.

[pjorek Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close pjorek]

Re: 1kz chip facts

good write up Mick, cheers

[Prado BB Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Prado BB]

Re: 1kz chip facts

Thought I might try and resuscitate this topic

Has anyone followed through and installed a chip? If so please post away and let know what you think.
I for one am very close to purchasing the Tunit, can get it at a reasonable price, which means I may also purchase a 3" exhaust, also at a very reasonable price.
I would like some encouragement before committing :roll:

Rob (signature) I will call you soon to take you up on the offer for a test drive.

Cheers

[tassie tiger Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close tassie tiger]

Re: 1kz chip facts

I would like some encouragement before committing :roll:

Its gunna be all right. You wont regret at thing. You will get 50% more power and 80% better economy.

Is that enough or do you need more.

More hey!

You will be even more desirable to the opposite sex.

Your hair will be thicker and your biceps stronger.

Men will look away when you approach, women will faint with desire.

You will leap tall buildings. You will.......

[Schaffer Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schaffer]

Re: 1kz chip facts

[quote=tassie tiger]

I would like some encouragement before committing :roll:

Its gunna be all right. You wont regret at thing. You will get 50% more power and 80% better economy.

Is that enough or do you need more.

More hey!

You will be even more desirable to the opposite sex.

Your hair will be thicker and your biceps stronger.

Men will look away when you approach, women will faint with desire.

You will leap tall buildings. You will.......[/quote:3bgyfhhq]
Do you get a free set of steak knives as well?

[Prado BB Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Prado BB]

Re: 1kz chip facts

ops:

was it something I said :?:

[tassie tiger Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close tassie tiger]

Re: 1kz chip facts

ops:

was it something I said :?:

Well you did want some encouragement