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  • Surging/stuttering feeling off throttle

    Help. I have an issue with my 2006 1gr-fe surging. The problem started a while ago but went away. I disconnected the battery to reset the ecu as suggested in another post which seemed to fix the issue. It has recently returned after having the clutch replaced. My theory is that they disconnected the battery again and the ecu is reading some sensor wrong. I have tried disconnecting the battery overnight but it did not help. I have installed new coil packs and iridium plugs but this didn't really fix the issue.
    When does it happen? Only when coasting 1800 -2200 rpm and feathering the throttle. Under acceleration, half to full throttle no issue, off throttle no issue. It can feel like the whole car is jerking when I'm doing about 60kmh. It runs on lpg but the issue occurs when you run it on petrol too although it is reduced. Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Wal01; 01-12-2014, 07:27 AM.
    2006 Prado GX silver, 6 speed manual, LPG, ARB Delux Winch Bar, IPF's, snorkel, UHF, 2" Lift with Dobinson Coils, Poly airbags, Bilstein Shocks, Pacemaker Headers, Cooper ST's, Piranha Dual Battery System.

  • #2
    No one??

    I had a scope put on the engine but it showed nothing significant. He suggested a blocked petrol injector but the vehicle has LPG fitted and does it on both fuels. I have considered changing the throttle body or throttle position sensor.

    I have cleaned the MAF and ERG. Any suggestions welcome.
    2006 Prado GX silver, 6 speed manual, LPG, ARB Delux Winch Bar, IPF's, snorkel, UHF, 2" Lift with Dobinson Coils, Poly airbags, Bilstein Shocks, Pacemaker Headers, Cooper ST's, Piranha Dual Battery System.

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    • #3
      Misfiring is usually electrical. Surging/jerking is usually fuel related.

      Any codes?

      can you borrow a Air flow Meter from another car to test?

      Comment


      • #4
        Minh
        No codes on the scan gauge fitted. It isn't a misfire as such but consistent slight surging jerking at 1800 rpm in any gear if you have light throttle application.
        The scope showed all the electrical sensors were operating correctly but it was running a bit lean on petrol.

        I need to check all the vacuum hoses on the air intake to make sure there are no leaks. It has had an over revving issue since the throttle body was cleaned. When slowing down at low revs it wants to surge back up to 1400 rpm when you put the clutch in before returning to 750 rpm when stopped.

        I'm sure it didn't used to do that prior to the maf and throttle body clean.
        2006 Prado GX silver, 6 speed manual, LPG, ARB Delux Winch Bar, IPF's, snorkel, UHF, 2" Lift with Dobinson Coils, Poly airbags, Bilstein Shocks, Pacemaker Headers, Cooper ST's, Piranha Dual Battery System.

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        • #5
          the problem with over revving I had also after cleaning the MAF , it is because the engine needs to be running I was told , when it is cleaned .
          it will stop after about 20 to 30 kms . not sure if that is of any help.

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          • #6
            Unfortunately no, still doing it vic. I cleaned the MAF and it over revved for a short time but then went back to normal. It does want to hold 1400 rpm in various situations but I don't know if this is related or I'm fighting two different issues(read need experiment thread). What does the engine do at 1800 rpm that may cause this. Does a vacuum switch activate or the second air chamber. It is now jerky whilst under mild acceleration but doesn't feel as sharp as an electrical misfire.

            This is the time line for anyone interested;
            - electrical mis fire one night at 100 km/h for short period 10 secs, under loaded acceleration - thought maybe coils pack breaking down but only did it once,
            - cleaned MAF, PCV and throttle body with throttle body cleaner , disconnected battery- started over revving 2000 rpm at idle and holding 1400 rpm when rolling and no accelerator activation above 20 km/h
            - drove around on petrol - over revving stopped once ECU had some data but this 1400 rpm holding remained,
            - studied Prado point for explanation and one old tread over two years with a similar issue......."high idle 120" thread interesting reading
            - disconnected battery to reset ECU over night in attempt to fix,
            - pulled the plugs and coils out, found no dielectric grease visible, applied same - no change thought it must have always done this 1400 rpm thing and I had gone mad,
            - replaced clutch because the vehicle had 200,000km and was slipping reversing the camper trailer up the drive,
            - researched PP again and fitted PDR thrust race from USA,
            - car returned and developed a jerky misfire type feeling as explained above- started thread.
            - new coil packs and iridium plugs- smoother, stronger acceleration but jerky feeling remains,
            - no fault codes ever shown on scan gauge - scoped engine no issues - no change
            - tested throttle body - motor action seems smooth,
            I have not had the tappets re shimmed but they aren't noisy, maybe valve recession, cam sensor, O2 sensor , throttle body rpeplacing - I'm lost, I don't know.
            Trade in time??? The other post chased his issue for two years through toyota and replaced every sensor before he sold the car
            My next step is dyno and compression test
            Last edited by Wal01; 05-02-2015, 01:35 PM.
            2006 Prado GX silver, 6 speed manual, LPG, ARB Delux Winch Bar, IPF's, snorkel, UHF, 2" Lift with Dobinson Coils, Poly airbags, Bilstein Shocks, Pacemaker Headers, Cooper ST's, Piranha Dual Battery System.

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            • #7
              Read Jon's thread below
              http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...dle-petrol-120


              Quote Originally Posted by Wal01
              Jon

              This is what I sent him:

              I was reading your post. I have a 2006 prado which now has a similar issue after cleaning the MASF and Throttle body. What happened in the end. Mine while bounce the revs between 1200 and 2000 whilst rolling at 100 km with the clutch depressed and then hold 1200 rpms constantly. Did you resolve it?

              His reply:

              I never did resolve it....Toyota stated no problem, this is normal (data was sent to Japan).
              If yours has resolved after a MAF clean, you need to do it again. Use a cotton bud with MAF cleaner, then straight cleaner. You must let the sensor dry completely before re-installing. The throttle body & butterfly valve needs to be cleaned with a rag, then throttle body cleaner. Ensure the butterfly closes properly.
              2006 Prado GX silver, 6 speed manual, LPG, ARB Delux Winch Bar, IPF's, snorkel, UHF, 2" Lift with Dobinson Coils, Poly airbags, Bilstein Shocks, Pacemaker Headers, Cooper ST's, Piranha Dual Battery System.

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              • #8
                What about fuel pump? As in pump on its way out or blocked?
                Pump relay playing up.

                I had a toyota supra which had similar problems to yours. Ended up being fuel pump relay.

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                • #9
                  It does it on both fuels, lpg and petrol. Has anyone had a problem with the crank angle sensor and could this cause my issues
                  2006 Prado GX silver, 6 speed manual, LPG, ARB Delux Winch Bar, IPF's, snorkel, UHF, 2" Lift with Dobinson Coils, Poly airbags, Bilstein Shocks, Pacemaker Headers, Cooper ST's, Piranha Dual Battery System.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    New MAF sensor fitted and throttle body cleaned again. Checked all the vacuum hoses. Disconnected the battery and idling up on petrol only to reset the ecu parameters. We'll see.
                    2006 Prado GX silver, 6 speed manual, LPG, ARB Delux Winch Bar, IPF's, snorkel, UHF, 2" Lift with Dobinson Coils, Poly airbags, Bilstein Shocks, Pacemaker Headers, Cooper ST's, Piranha Dual Battery System.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I had this on LPG, a real stuttering surge at times. it was less on petrol.

                      Resolution was flushing of the LPG lines as a wax builds up in the ?injectors. Flush was done by LPG system supplier and resolved.

                      Hope yours is as easy to rectify

                      Jarrod
                      2004 VX, V6 LPG Conversion, Soverign Alloy Bar, Snorkel, Hella 1000, Rola Roof Bars, Waeco Fridge, Camel Camper. My other 4WD was a Kia Sportage- muddies, exhaust, lift= great little truck!

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                      • #12
                        All that has been cleaned and new filter put on the gas line. New MAF sensor put on today but no change. Checked the resistance on the throttle body 3.8 ohms resistance. The manual says between 0.3 and 100 is normal!

                        I went to a tuning specialist today and bent his ear about the vehicles issues. He has given me a couple of things to try including checking earth straps on the engine and gearbox (replaced the clutch which started the whole mess). Maybe they didn't reconnect it or it is dirty.

                        Also discharge the ECU again but leaving pos/neg terminals off the battery for a few hours but then touching both the terminals (when not connected to the battery) together to discharge the Ecu completely(I hadn't done this part). Reconnect the battery so it can relearn from scratch.

                        He really thinks it is the shims and the valves are not happy. Normal presents as a rough idle (which mine doesn't) and then gets worse. With LPG the valves will recess but the Toyota audible test is no good because the shim gaps get tighter hence no noise. If you let them recess without checking the gaps then the valves run hot and burn out. New valves and head work means $5000. Ouch

                        He's quoted 4-5 hours labor minimum at $120 an hour and $1400 -1500 if the buckets/shims need replacing. He told me he did one with 220 kms last month and 8 buckets needed replacing $1600.

                        I also read things like oil viscosity and VVT engines a critical and the cam position sensor can make the 1GR do some strange things. I might torch it instead, claim the insurance! I can even sell it like this, trade in only. I'll see if my wife allows me to spend more money on her!!
                        Last edited by Wal01; 12-02-2015, 01:01 PM.
                        2006 Prado GX silver, 6 speed manual, LPG, ARB Delux Winch Bar, IPF's, snorkel, UHF, 2" Lift with Dobinson Coils, Poly airbags, Bilstein Shocks, Pacemaker Headers, Cooper ST's, Piranha Dual Battery System.

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                        • #13
                          Wal01

                          Have you checked the Knock Sensor? That plays with the timing and fuel if it messes up and you will get surging issues too.

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                          • #14
                            I bit the bullet and had the shims done. 11 needed replacing on the exhaust valves. They had minimal clearance but not zero clearance so the valves are still serviceable. Did it fix the problem?............nup. The engine feels really strong under heavy acceleration but still slight jerky feeling at 1800 rpm with light throttle application. I have read too about the crank angle sensor causing funny issues. They scoped the engine again, no faults and everything great. Fuel trim levels good, blah blah blah. I don't care what anyone says, it is still not right. Oh yeah $1900 lighter for the trouble
                            2006 Prado GX silver, 6 speed manual, LPG, ARB Delux Winch Bar, IPF's, snorkel, UHF, 2" Lift with Dobinson Coils, Poly airbags, Bilstein Shocks, Pacemaker Headers, Cooper ST's, Piranha Dual Battery System.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Im really sorry to hear.

                              Get back to basics? Check for vacuum leaks. Make sure there are no leaks on the intake manifold/plenum chamber as they are plastic. Maybe its cracked somewhere?
                              Check for air leaks. It has to be something simple

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