Have a V6, should I swap over to a D4D?

[Grumpy Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Grumpy]

Hahaha, yep, you read it correctly!

Have a squiz here, and read the section "Piston engine use";

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel

Jet fuel is similar to diesel, and contains a variety of different length hydrocarbon chains, giving similar cetane ratings, but it generally doesn't contain the lubricants that diesel injectors need.

The old saying "diesel is for trucks and aeroplanes" comes from old bush pilots. If they were at an airport that had run out of jet fuel, they could top up with diesel to get back.


Best

Mark

Many an aircraft engineer used to run their old Landcruisers & Patrols on Jet fuel drained for maintenance. This was mixed with 10% engine oil to stop the pump seals leaking from the drying effect of the jet. However I wouldn't recommend this for a modern diesel.

Oh, and my vote is for the D4D, but as a D4D owner & ex diesel mechanic I may be a bit biased.

[Symo Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Symo]

Hahaha, yep, you read it correctly!

Have a squiz here, and read the section "Piston engine use";

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel

Jet fuel is similar to diesel, and contains a variety of different length hydrocarbon chains, giving similar cetane ratings, but it generally doesn't contain the lubricants that diesel injectors need.

The old saying "diesel is for trucks and aeroplanes" comes from old bush pilots. If they were at an airport that had run out of jet fuel, they could top up with diesel to get back.

Here's another interesting article about ground vehicles at airports using jet fuel instead of diesel;

http://generalaviationnews.com/2011/...s-diesel-fuel/

The old diesel vs petrol debate has now turned into a diesel vs petrol vs jet fuel debate, hahaha!

As several have now stated, they purchased the D4D on the basis of range and economy. I purchase on the basis of having grunt and reliability, and if a diesel engine (like the 79 series) has some decent power ...AND... reliability, then I'm more than happy to buy one!

The Prado 3.0l D4D is a slug, much like every other 3.0l turbo diesel.

In my opinion, going from a powerful (but well known thirsty V6 petrol) to a well known unreliable and gutless diesel D4D is just nuts!

Best

Mark

The D4D is not a slug, it's hole shot to 80 is faster than most vehicles in traffic. Your just making things up which is clouding the issue.

[120D4D Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 120D4D]

The D4D is not a slug, it's hole shot to 80 is faster than most vehicles in traffic. Your just making things up which is clouding the issue.

True. Mine is certainly faster than my old man's 3.0L Ranger and my brothers 3.0L Y61 Patrol AND 2.5L D22 Navara!!

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

The D4D is not a slug, it's hole shot to 80 is faster than most vehicles in traffic. Your just making things up which is clouding the issue.

Hhhmm,

Well, the original poster was asking about the economics of changing over, and didn't ask anything about performance, so anyone posting about performance (including me) is guilty of clouding the real issue in this thread.

...add in "I've got all the usual ARB stuff, Bull Bar, Bash Plates, 2" lift, 265 BFG ATs, Winch, Dual Batts, Roof Rack with Awning/Shovel/Hi-Lift, Drawers, 60L Water Tank, Engel etc" and "I'm about to splurge on the Kaymar wheel carrier as well" and that holeshot to 80km/h will be nothing to crow about, for either the diesel or petrol!

Regarding the real issue of this thread, I'd still like to see a service schedule cost up to say 200,000km for petrol vs diesel, and then do a 550km/week fillup model based on historical data for diesel and petrol costs over the last 10 years.

The cost of diesel relative to petrol has been plus and minus over a very long time period, so I suspect (without having any accurate figures) that the long term benefits of say 12l/100km economy for the diesel vs 18l/100km for the petrol may end up being a lot closer in relative total cost than everyone thinks.

If that is true, then your choice of diesel or petrol will be down to performance, reliability and personal preference.

Best

Mark

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

If that is true, then your choice of diesel or petrol will be down to performance, reliability and personal preference.

You forgot range.

[404pug Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 404pug]

...and range is a moot point. The only place/track in Australia where I have needed to carry extra petrol was the Canning. Elsewhere in the country you can fill up just about anywhere. It may cost a few cents per litre more but in the grand sceeme of things if it is only on an annual trip, who cares? Even at sand dune consumption of 22 l/100km you will still get 800+km range. This is your worst case scenario and how often will it occur. Even towing you will do better than this if you are a bit light on the throttle. Horses for courses.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

...and range is a moot point. The only place/track in Australia where I have needed to carry extra petrol was the Canning. Elsewhere in the country you can fill up just about anywhere. It may cost a few cents per litre more but in the grand sceeme of things if it is only on an annual trip, who cares? Even at sand dune consumption of 22 l/100km you will still get 800+km range. This is your worst case scenario and how often will it occur. Even towing you will do better than this if you are a bit light on the throttle. Horses for courses.

Hey,

Yep, range doesn't come into the equation, I've driven everywhere in my petrol, Simpson, Great Central rd etc., didn't need any extra jerry cans.

The real issue of this thread is a complicated question to address.

Here is an example from August 2008, when diesel cost 30c more /litre than petrol;

http://www.4x4australia.com.au/drive...versus-diesel/

Everything depends on where you drive and the ever changing cost of diesel relative to petrol.

You can run hypotheticals on litres/100km all day long, but in the end, diesel lovers will buy diesels, petrol lovers will buy petrols. The difference in cost to run the 4wd won't mean anything to most folks.

My thoughts on 3.0 litre turbo-diesel CRD engines is that they have been a technological setback in the quest to meet emission standards. The D4D and the infamous Nissan "hand grenade" are two glaring examples.

CRD issues are now widespread across the globe in all vehicle types, and emission standards have not been met.

This means the next generation diesel needs a design re-think, and hybrid diesel/electric vehicles have already demonstrated their potential to fill this gap, with impressive economy and low pollution figures.

The hybrid diesel/electric 4wd is probably just around the corner!

Best

Mark

[KIMBOPRADO Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close KIMBOPRADO]

Hey,

This means the next generation diesel needs a design re-think, and hybrid diesel/electric vehicles have already demonstrated their potential to fill this gap, with impressive economy and low pollution figures.

The hybrid diesel/electric 4wd is probably just around the corner!

Best

Mark

Glad to see this old chestnut debate diesel v petrol continues...

Over here in WA they have deemed the diesel/electric bus introduced several years ago a failure announced today

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/...med-a-failure/

My preference is a V6 petrol, without having to be a diesel mechanic to service/manage a D4D engine, others is for a D4D - it all comes down to your own personal preference,situation and choice - there is no right or wrong choice.

If I was to upgrade in the future - still would chose a V6, been happy with my choice as others would be with the D4D

Cheers Kim

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Glad to see this old chestnut debate diesel v petrol continues...

Over here in WA they have deemed the diesel/electric bus introduced several years ago a failure announced today

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/...med-a-failure/

That's a shame. Perth also has form with running hydrogen buses;

http://www.abc.net.au/stateline/wa/c...6/s2068142.htm

They were also deemed a failure, but more from a cost perspective (expensive fuel cells) rather than parts availability.

I still believe Australia can build an industry around gas/electric or diesel/petrol/electric hybrids. Unfortunately we'll probably outsource it like everything else.

I rode the first hydrogen bus in Iceland in 2003, it's old hat these days. There's nothing technologically fancy about hydrogen or hydrocarbon/electric hybrids, and the only thing stopping widescale production is the oil industry.

In Norway there's something of an electric car revolution going on, lots of government subsidies to encourage the use of electric cars, can drive in bus lanes with electric cars, free charging stations in the cities etc. There are Teslas and Leafs everywhere!

Makes the diesel vs petrol debate look old tech!

Best

Mark

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Yep, range doesn't come into the equation, I've driven everywhere in my petrol, Simpson, Great Central rd etc., didn't need any extra jerry cans.

Sorry but for many range is a major factor, I am in the early stages of planning a trip, leaving the trailer at home for this one and reckon I will need to carry 260-280lts of DIESEL to do the trip, there is no possible way I could contemplate it in a petrol.

I did a trip a few years ago and the only reason the one guy with a petrol could do the trip was because all the Diesel drivers carried extra Petrol for him!

Dismissing range as a factor is just rejecting reality and substituting your own.

Cheers Andrew

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

+1

I mentioned range because it is a factor if you spend a lot of the life of your Prado outside the 'burbs. We don't plan our trips around more frequent fuel stops as we would have to in a petrol.

Doing the Simpson without carrying spare fuel in a V6? Hmm...

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Doing the Simpson without carrying spare fuel in a V6? Hmm...

Perhaps it was being towed by a diesel?

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

The other thing about range is the ability to drive past expensive fuel to cheaper places in larger centres. I have no idea how much I would have saved over the years because of that, but it would certainly be hundreds of $$ and I wouldn't be surprised if it was Thousands. An extra 200km range can save you a dollar a litre and more sometimes, it adds up really quickly when you save that much.

Cheers Andrew

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

And...

Driving by little hick petrol stations is likely to save you from contaminated fuel. Range gives you that option.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Perhaps it was being towed by a diesel?

Hhhmm,

In all statistical likelihood, it's gunna be the V6 towing out the D4D after it goes bang beside a dune somewhere!

Hahaha, nice try though!

Best

Mark