Have a V6, should I swap over to a D4D?

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

+1

I mentioned range because it is a factor if you spend a lot of the life of your Prado outside the 'burbs. We don't plan our trips around more frequent fuel stops as we would have to in a petrol.

Doing the Simpson without carrying spare fuel in a V6? Hmm...

Hey,

Had extra jerry cans with me, just didn't need them.

Best

Mark

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Sorry but for many range is a major factor, I am in the early stages of planning a trip, leaving the trailer at home for this one and reckon I will need to carry 260-280lts of DIESEL to do the trip, there is no possible way I could contemplate it in a petrol.

I did a trip a few years ago and the only reason the one guy with a petrol could do the trip was because all the Diesel drivers carried extra Petrol for him!

Dismissing range as a factor is just rejecting reality and substituting your own.

Cheers Andrew

Fair comment about the range.

So 280l of diesel...at 20l/100km would give 1400km for the trip.

Then you need to make a call about how often you would do a trip from A to B that is 1400km between petrol stations.

Even on the Canning everyone needs a fuel drop, diesel or petrol.

Considering the costs and logistsics involved, how many trips out of 100 would be requiring this immense range, 5% maybe, and how many would have this trip on their to do list?

Not rejecting the reality of the range advantage, but pointing out that statistically, it won't be needed that often!

Care to share a few trip details?

Best

Mark

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

Had extra jerry cans with me, just didn't need them.

Oh, ok. That's different, better even your comment was 'didn't need any extra jerry cans'

So you took them, but didn't use them. Fair enough. I think plenty of people use them, even diesels. Depends on the trip I guess.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Fair comment about the range.

Excellent, so we are agreed that range is a factor to consider

So 280l of diesel...at 20l/100km would give 1400km for the trip.

Then you need to make a call about how often you would do a trip from A to B that is 1400km between petrol stations.

Your assumptions are different to mine, 22l/100km, that's what I used on Madigans, approx. 1000km means a 220l burn, but in remote country you need a safety margin, 20% or more, which is where I got my figure from.

Even on the Canning everyone needs a fuel drop, diesel or petrol.

Yes but on the Canning that option is available, not on a few trips I have in mind

Considering the costs and logistsics involved, how many trips out of 100 would be requiring this immense range, 5% maybe, and how many would have this trip on their to do list?

Agreed not many would do this, but I mentioned this in relation to your comment that range was not a factor, when clearly it is for me and some others. If you only want to do a trip like this once, you still the need the range, you cant half do it and then finish it later.

Not rejecting the reality of the range advantage, but pointing out that statistically, it won't be needed that often!

You previously rejected the reality of the advantage so glad to see you have seen the light.

Care to share a few trip details?

Not at this stage, I could tell you but I would have to kill you afterwards I actually want to do this trip as a learning experience for a really remote trip I want to do!
Best

Mark

Cheers Andrew

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey Andrew,

When you run With 280l on board and just the Prado, where are you putting the x5 extra jerry cans?

I can carry x4 on my ARB rack, and could fit another x2 on a rear bar.

This still wouldn't be enough to do Madigans in a petrol with 30l/100km in the sand, and you'd need at least x8 extra jerry cans to attempt it in the petrol, which I believe could still be done by throwing some jerry cans inside the vehicle as many others have done (assuming x1 spare and x2 jerry cans on rear bar).

...is the really remote trip North of Madigans, rocket parts chasing in the Northern Simpson?

Best

Mark

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

I have room for 4 jerry cans in the rear seat storage system I made, http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l=1#post338166

I have a single jerry can holder on my rear bar but I could make that a 2 jerry can holder and yes the roof rack as well. I haven't ruled out the option of fitting a long range tank either, but not sure about that one.

Cheers Andrew

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

ARB alloy rack is ~30kg. 4 x Jerry cans up there, aren't you over the roof weight limit?

[cfryback Find all posts View Profile Close cfryback]

Hey,

Will changing the seats/upgrading injectors "rectify the problem"?

No, and there are cases of them not even being properly installed.

The old diesel vs petrol argument only has meaning to me in terms of real grunt and reliability. I will drive either if they have both! Presently, I have no doubt that the V6 in my 120 has a bit of grunt and will last me another 150,000km, but I wouldn't risk owning a current model D4D.

Well, I'm the first to admit - I bought someone else's problem. Major engine issues TWICE, first one was blow by that caused the sump to be clogged. That was $14k. Just over 2 years and less than 40K km, injectors let loose - again engine damage caused by fuel contamination. Verified by independent testing, written off via insurance.

Bought an ARB loaded GXL (with VX/Grande fruit on it) '04 1GRE V6 - about the only thing I did wish it had was the 6 speed.
But insurance got me that and other things for the family - so a positive negative about the 1KD-FTV.

I'm in no hurry to get a CRD anytime soon.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

ARB alloy rack is ~30kg. 4 x Jerry cans up there, aren't you over the roof weight limit?

Hey,

Yeah this was a nail biter trying to figure out how much I could get on my rack. I've been across Australia twice with this configuration on the roof: x4 jerry cans, extra spare wheel, gas bottle, 2 man tent, couple of camping chairs, arb awning, shovel.

I know this is all past the dynamic load limit, but I haven't had any issues. I also climb all over it strapping everything down. The arb alloy racks are one of the best pieces of touring gear you can get!

Best

Mark

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

No, and there are cases of them not even being properly installed.



Well, I'm the first to admit - I bought someone else's problem. Major engine issues TWICE, first one was blow by that caused the sump to be clogged. That was $14k. Just over 2 years and less than 40K km, injectors let loose - again engine damage caused by fuel contamination. Verified by independent testing, written off via insurance.

Bought an ARB loaded GXL (with VX/Grande fruit on it) '04 1GRE V6 - about the only thing I did wish it had was the 6 speed.
But insurance got me that and other things for the family - so a positive negative about the 1KD-FTV.

I'm in no hurry to get a CRD anytime soon.

Hey,

I'm glad to hear after all those problems that you managed to fight your way out of it with insurance and into a V6. Hopefully it will give you lots of hassle free years of driving!!

Best

Mark

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

I have room for 4 jerry cans in the rear seat storage system I made, http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l=1#post338166

I have a single jerry can holder on my rear bar but I could make that a 2 jerry can holder and yes the roof rack as well. I haven't ruled out the option of fitting a long range tank either, but not sure about that one.

Cheers Andrew

Hey Andrew,

Nice setup in the back seat!

To be fair though, the arguments about benefits of range of the diesel go out the window once we start adding extra jerry cans into the car.

At 22l/100km on the Madigan line at 1000km including 20% safety margin, that is 264l of diesel, giving you a 1200km range if you burned every last drop.

For the V6 at 30l/100km, I will need 360 litres of petrol. That is an extra 180l, or x9 jerry cans, which can be achieved, x4 on the roof, x2 on rear bar, x3 on back seat etc.

I can still carry the amount of water I need as well, flexible floor tank, jerrys in cargo area, underbody tanks etc. My Prado would be heavier by 75kg or so, but in the scheme of things it isn't that much, and I'll gradually burn it off anyway.

I will agree with you that a trip like the Madigan line is probably at the limits of the V6 in terms of carrying capacity, but it can still be done, and I will be giving it a go in my V6 one day!

To be fair about the range advantage of the diesel over the petrol when including extra jerry cans, we should then specify economy, maximum distance and driving conditions.

Including the safety margin at 30l/100km for the V6, this puts the maximum figure for sandy dune driving at 1200km.

Using the same number of extra jerry cans (x9) in the diesel and using 22l/100km, this gives an impressive 1636km.

I've been scratching my head trying to figure out where you will be going, and I keep thinking you must be going to attempt a desert crossing somewhere...it is Australia after all!

Am I even close, any breadcrumbs to tease us with?? Can you at least tell us what state you will be attempting this feat in?

Best

Mark

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

Hey,

Yeah this was a nail biter trying to figure out how much I could get on my rack. I've been across Australia twice with this configuration on the roof: x4 jerry cans, extra spare wheel, gas bottle, 2 man tent, couple of camping chairs, arb awning, shovel.

I know this is all past the dynamic load limit, but I haven't had any issues. I also climb all over it strapping everything down. The arb alloy racks are one of the best pieces of touring gear you can get!

Best

Mark

Wow! What would that be, 190kg including the rack?

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Wow! What would that be, 190kg including the rack?

Hey,

x4 Jerrys = 70kg
spare = 30kg
gas bottle = 18kg
chairs = 4kg
awning = 10kg???
tent = 3kg
shovel = 3kg
rack = 30kg???

So maybe more like 160-170kg I reckon.

Best

Mark

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

I would be happy to have some jerries of diesel in the car, petrol? Not so much.

I'm not knocking petrol engines. I love my LSA.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

I would be happy to have some jerries of diesel in the car, petrol? Not so much.

Good point!

Can any petrol drivers fess up to storing petrol jerry cans inside the Prado to achieve a long distance trip?

I can always put x8 jerry cans on the roofrack!

Best

Mark