Petrol vs Diesel: A 10 year urban running cost comparison

[404pug]

Interesting figures Mark. My 06 VX petrol was about $5-6 K cheaper when I bought it than similar 2 year old D4Ds so the relativity is still there [ as it gets close to 150000 km.

[Whitey]

1.2e+5 ??

So 6.2 Euros for a Prado? lol.

1.2e+5 = 125000, it's the scientific notation in SigmaPlot.

[photoprado]

1.2e+5 ??

So 6.2 Euros for a Prado? lol.

[Whitey]

Hey all,

For those who've been looking at second hand vehicles and the price difference between diesel and petrol, I've had a squiz at carsales, here is the data for 2007 GXL;



There was 12 diesels and 6 petrols, so petrol is a bit data poor, but the strong km dependent trend is obvious enough.

There is one fairly outrageous price of $42000 for the diesel, which biases the diesel trend line slightly upwards in price.

It's clear that lower km petrols near 100000km will be around equal value with the diesel, and by 150000km, the price difference is nearly $6000. Note that this is what the market is doing right now, and reflects what people will pay, not what the vehicles are truly worth.

Petrols in between 125000 and 150000km are really at bargain prices, $3-6000 saving to be had.

Second hand diesels up near 150000km are obviously over priced.

Best

Mark

[Whitey]

After owning both, I am loving my '04 Petrol.

Thirsty - yes. But after my experience with '06 GX 1KD, I am no hurry to go back to diesel. I am seeing on Facebook more and more people that are getting stung with higher mileage 1KD's that have been "dealer serviced" only to go down the sad path that I went though.

That said, I have read about a couple of 1GR-FE's that have let loose, but they read of owner abuse/lack of servicing.

It will be some time before I go back to a CRD.

On my 1GR-FE, I've ordered a set of Bosch Platinum Plugs. I am looking at changing out the injectors - though the prices vary from $299 to $1000 for all 6. Given that I am cresting on 250K km, it will be an option for sure.

Overall, I believe the running costs on the petrol will be cheaper in the long haul.

Hey,

Good to hear you're enjoying the petrol! ...did you have an engine failure on the D4D?

Every 1GR-FE that I've seen blown up has been completely sludged up internally due to lack of oil change. Owners fault, not the engines! That being said, they can still spin bearings like any other engine if you thrash the crap out of them.

Good investment on the new injectors!

Only thing to watch out for on the 04 1GR-FE models is the head gasket blowing, typically on #6 cylinder, and maybe the timing cover leaking. If you're up to 250000km, it seems unlikely you'll experience those issues.

Best

Mark

[cfryback]

After owning both, I am loving my '04 Petrol.

Thirsty - yes. But after my experience with '06 GX 1KD, I am no hurry to go back to diesel. I am seeing on Facebook more and more people that are getting stung with higher mileage 1KD's that have been "dealer serviced" only to go down the sad path that I went though.

That said, I have read about a couple of 1GR-FE's that have let loose, but they read of owner abuse/lack of servicing.

It will be some time before I go back to a CRD.

On my 1GR-FE, I've ordered a set of Bosch Platinum Plugs. I am looking at changing out the injectors - though the prices vary from $299 to $1000 for all 6. Given that I am cresting on 250K km, it will be an option for sure.

Overall, I believe the running costs on the petrol will be cheaper in the long haul.

[Whitey]

So thats based on 1 car? Petrols are selling as well as diesels and the price is only a couple of $1000 difference from my research which includes the trade of my current one. More people drive diesels because lets face it they use less fuel. I have looked at all the info provided here and if I look at it from a financial stand point without including engine failures / injector replacement /dpf repair or replace the diesel is cheaper to run. I dont know if I want to put my trust in a new engine that may require multiple $1000 to keep it healthy. I know the V6 is heavier on fuel but it can tow when needed and as long as I'm not towing all day everyday I'm happy with that.

Hey,

Yes the diesel uses less fuel, however, it is not necessarily cheaper to run. In the model used here I have assumed monthly fillups, which gives the diesel an advantage. Fill up earlier, cost/litre for diesel is lower with less fuel required, compared to a full 180 litre monthly fillup for the petrol. If I ran the diesel out to empty each time in the model, the gap between diesel and petrol would be even smaller. Same fuel will be used for the diesel, but cost will be higher.

Another factor to consider for this model is the initial purchase cost. If there is $2-3000 more purchase cost for the diesel (which seems to have remained this way for a long period), the gap to the petrol closes yet again.

Once all these factors are considered, the cost difference between diesel and petrol is minimal.

Best

Mark

[Whitey]

Give it time, somebody will come up with a bypass solution for the DPF. The only problem is that the government has funded a project to look into vehicle emissions as part of their anti-global warming commitment. This would mean some form of testing for all vehicles but that would cost a lot of money for the infrastructure and the process. Time will tell.

Hey,

Removing or bypassing the dpf will of course be deemed illegal. This hoop has already been burnt in Europe and can't be jumped through anymore.

Same principle applies to those running small 5-7mm diameter egr plates, what is the change in pollutant levels coming out the tailpipe? You have effectively bypassed the emissions control system of the vehicle, and I'm guessing you wouldn't pass a roadside tailpipe inspection??

Note I have no position for or against doing this, just pointing out the potential issue.

Best

Mark

[Whitey]

So thats based on 1 car? Petrols are selling as well as diesels and the price is only a couple of $1000 difference from my research which includes the trade of my current one. More people drive diesels because lets face it they use less fuel. I have looked at all the info provided here and if I look at it from a financial stand point without including engine failures / injector replacement /dpf repair or replace the diesel is cheaper to run. I dont know if I want to put my trust in a new engine that may require multiple $1000 to keep it healthy. I know the V6 is heavier on fuel but it can tow when needed and as long as I'm not towing all day everyday I'm happy with that. Diesels have there pros and cons as do the petrols and as someone here has already said drive what makes you happy. Nobody knows what the future will hold. A new type of engine might get developed that makes the combustion engine (diesel and petrol) obsolete and then resell will be dead.

Just get out there and enjoy your Prado and use it for what it was meant for.

Thanks

Hey,

I think the difference between diesel and petrol for a new 2.8 and V6 is in the order of $2000. If that figure is accurate, then you have to wonder why the diesel costs more money, it has a smaller engine with less materials used to make it, and the 2.8 now has a simplified emissions control system with the dpf, no extra components of the egr. The diesel will cost less to run than the petrol, and with the new dpf, supposedly all the pollution problems are taken care of. Theoretically, the diesel should be cheaper.

I don't see the combustion engine disappearing any time soon. The transition metals required as catalysts to make fuel production (both diesel and petrol) less energy intensive are rapidly disappearing. As such there will be huge costs associated with fuel cell production which use expensive transition metal catalysts. Fuel cell vehicles will very likely not make it economically.

What makes more sense is retrofitting the worlds existing vehicle fleet, and running hydrogen through existing combustion engines. Changing fuel tanks and injectors to run hydrogen will ultimately be cheaper.

Best

Mark

[Bushbasher]

Give it time, somebody will come up with a bypass solution for the DPF. The only problem is that the government has funded a project to look into vehicle emissions as part of their anti-global warming commitment. This would mean some form of testing for all vehicles but that would cost a lot of money for the infrastructure and the process. Time will tell.

[cuda]

Like house prices, what they are advertised for and what the sell for are not the same. Might as well post an add of blenders off gumtree for what is worth.

I have had several auctioneers near my office and both times they have given me the hint that the actual price a particular car is fetching at any point in time is equal to the lowest price advertised on carsales with similar KMs and year.


So all V6 2007 VX are really worth about $25k.

So thats based on 1 car? Petrols are selling as well as diesels and the price is only a couple of $1000 difference from my research which includes the trade of my current one. More people drive diesels because lets face it they use less fuel. I have looked at all the info provided here and if I look at it from a financial stand point without including engine failures / injector replacement /dpf repair or replace the diesel is cheaper to run. I dont know if I want to put my trust in a new engine that may require multiple $1000 to keep it healthy. I know the V6 is heavier on fuel but it can tow when needed and as long as I'm not towing all day everyday I'm happy with that. Diesels have there pros and cons as do the petrols and as someone here has already said drive what makes you happy. Nobody knows what the future will hold. A new type of engine might get developed that makes the combustion engine (diesel and petrol) obsolete and then resell will be dead.

Just get out there and enjoy your Prado and use it for what it was meant for.

Thanks

[Symo]

This is off carpoint today

Like house prices, what they are advertised for and what the sell for are not the same. Might as well post an add of blenders off gumtree for what is worth.

I have had several auctioneers near my office and both times they have given me the hint that the actual price a particular car is fetching at any point in time is equal to the lowest price advertised on carsales with similar KMs and year.

So all V6 2007 VX are really worth about $25k.

[Bushbasher]

He also said the reason that the 3l TD's had issues with the injectors was due to the poor quality of the Australian supplied diesel and this would continue to be an issue. It causes the injector tips to deteriorate more rapidly causing an early life failure.

Poor quality fuel? No, I can't believe that. If that were true then Toyota have been telling us all lies with their advertising proudly announcing that Toyotas were built to take the Australian conditions. If they know, or knew, the fuel was crap and they didn't design their engines and fuel systems to manage the fuel that we have then they have deceived us all. Wait a minute - that's exactly what they did.

[rob_macca67]

Got be good for the 2nd hand market lol

Holy moly!

$3500 for new DPF internals? ....well it sounds similar to cases I've read in the UK for example, where you have to cough up over 2000 pounds to replace the DPF.

The big scary question is how many times will you need to replace the DPF in the lifetime of the car? At the moment it's an unknown for the new 2.8.

Best

Mark

[Whitey]

I spoke with Toyota service today and ask the question regarding the DPF system. I was informed that the system is new and its an unknown as to when the DPF filter will need replacement but Toyota has specified that a specific oil can only be used on the motor. I was quoted $3500 for the DPF filter plus 4hrs of labour.

Holy moly!

$3500 for new DPF internals? ....well it sounds similar to cases I've read in the UK for example, where you have to cough up over 2000 pounds to replace the DPF.

The big scary question is how many times will you need to replace the DPF in the lifetime of the car? At the moment it's an unknown for the new 2.8.

Best

Mark