Petrol vs Diesel: A 10 year urban running cost comparison

[craigm]

Infractions and warnings have been given to those involved. Please keep it friendly people!

Off topic again I know.
That'd be tricky since the PM's havent been working for so long? (Just sayin....)

Due to Trolling and some off topic posts there has been a number of posts removed from this thread.
Infractions and warnings have been given to those involved. Please keep it friendly people!

[Morty]

Servicing costs for 1kz starting with 1000km. 1kz manual. I haven't been given all receipts.

Mileage Cost
1000 $86 Bill Buckle Toyota in 03/2003
5000 $53.9
10000 $203
20000 $586.65
30000 $232.5
35000 $159.15
40000 $494.2
55000 $174.9
70000 $313.2
135590 $183.14 07/2007 Changed to Pennant Hills Toyota
140000 $435.42
146000 $209.04
155000 $256.7
160000 $602.77
170000 $324.59
195000 $317.25 02/2010 Changed to Mannell Motors
230000 $473.7
245000 $1108.95 All fluids changed
280000 $699
300000 $909.79 All fluids changed
320000 $485.05
365000 $838.46
375000 ? 06/2017 to be owner serviced from here on

1. Costs do include standard service labour, parts and all consumables except listed below.
2. Does not include replacement of radiator, clutch master cylinder, bonnet struts, a/c idler pulley, wheel alignment, platetronic test, brake pads, front drive shafts, wiper blades or clutch.
3. Missing receipts do no imply a service was missed.
4. 5000km oil & filter changes performed by owner. Unknown when this started.
5. There is no receipt containing anything in relation to injectors being replaced at the services listed above.

[Morty]

Hey Morty,

Thanks, but your fuzzy extrapolation is not good enough!

I drive my Prado petrol 120 pretty hard around town, and I'm getting 17l/100km in what is a heavy 2.4t Prado with accessories before I start packing it. I run on BP98. I don't know any petrol owners who are reporting 20l/100km driving around town.

Most 120 petrol owners are reporting 14-15l/100km around town if they drive normally.

I'm merely highlighting a scenario where my city driving is quite different to the suburban driving of the majority of suburbanites here. I live 2km from the Sydney CBD and an 8km drive to work takes 1hour to 1.5 hours. A 4km run to the supermarket takes 20 to 30 minutes.

Based upon 14 years of figures collected during the Falcon ownership, the inner city fuel consumption in a much lighter car was significantly worse than the suburban driving. I wouldn't expect a Petrol Prado to stick to the figures you guys get.

As for the 1kz, the vehicle chose me. I was all set to go find myself a petrol 105 series until my girlfriend had a chat with a colleague who just happened to be ready to sell his Prado. I never did get a chance to go check out a 105 series.

As for the message the thread tries to give amongst the noise of towing, open road and combined figures is that the diesel doesn't enjoy the cost advantage that many people think it does in an average situation. I came to that conclusion 20 years ago on a different vehicle.

[ozimacca]

I will cautiously add that we diesel drivers often find a difference between brands and even if I use BP Ultimate I get better economy than BP standard.

When I had my Statesman I tested it using 91, 95 and 98, my economy was anything up to 30% variation so in my mind any figures quoted by drivers need to be supported by which fuel as well.

Any petrol Prado towing using E10 from a junk brand is going to hit enormous numbers, someone using a good 98 is going to get very different numbers for economy.

Easy to see that under varying circumstances you are all correct

[Whitey]

Geez you blokes, when are you going to stop this and realise LPG is the way to go!

Ive done 100k on my FJ on LPG and already saved the install price 2.5 times (and that was an inflated Autocraft price). Got the numbers somewhere ;-).

Some info from FJ land (using U95):

Stock FJ's do get 11 l/100 on hwy runs, and some misers get that in town. Ive seen multiple reports of 11s towing camper trailers up and down the Pacific Hwy.

Most FJ's with 33's and accessories + a load get 13 l/100.

When i crossed the Simpson i averaged 20 l/100 U91/LPG. The P150 D4D in our convoy used 14 l/100, and i was heavier and also with 33's on steelies compared to his stock wheels.

Ah you cunning LPG devil!

The voice of reason has spoken!

...but where does that argument end, in the depths of carbon fibre reinforced hydrogen storage tanks of at least 66% inefficiency???

Petrol vs Diesel: A 10 year urban running cost comparison

Geez you blokes, when are you going to stop this and realise LPG is the way to go!

Some info from FJ land (using U95):

Stock FJ's do get 11 l/100 on hwy runs, and some misers get that in town. Ive seen multiple reports of 11s towing camper trailers up and down the Pacific Hwy.

Most FJ's with 33's and accessories + a load get 13 l/100..

Similar and sometimes better figures info to what I posted. Food for truthful thought..

LPG certainly has come a long way from the old days too. But hell used to always get a laugh listening to another taxi lunch an air box at the lights...I miss that...

👍

[drwormy]

Geez you blokes, when are you going to stop this and realise LPG is the way to go!

Ive done 100k on my FJ on LPG and already saved the install price 2.5 times (and that was an inflated Autocraft price). Got the numbers somewhere ;-).

Some info from FJ land (using U95):

Stock FJ's do get 11 l/100 on hwy runs, and some misers get that in town. Ive seen multiple reports of 11s towing camper trailers up and down the Pacific Hwy.

Most FJ's with 33's and accessories + a load get 13 l/100.

When i crossed the Simpson i averaged 20 l/100 U91/LPG. The P150 D4D in our convoy used 14 l/100, and i was heavier and also with 33's on steelies compared to his stock wheels.

[Whitey]

Hey Morty,

Thanks, but your fuzzy extrapolation is not good enough!

I drive my Prado petrol 120 pretty hard around town, and I'm getting 17l/100km in what is a heavy 2.4t Prado with accessories before I start packing it. I run on BP98. I don't know any petrol owners who are reporting 20l/100km driving around town.

Most 120 petrol owners are reporting 14-15l/100km around town if they drive normally.

Maybe things aren't swaying as far to your 11-13l/100km 1KZ figures as you think! Certainly the 1KZ will be a more reliable diesel option long term compared to the 1KD.

Fuzzy extrapolations don't count in my world, hard number crunching does! You need to crunch on national historical averages, local figures which give biased figures one way or the other every now and then "at this juncture in time" are statistical outliers which are meaningless over long periods of time. Look over the last 10 years as in the above graph and there isn't really a huge advantage running the 1KD.

Enjoy the 1KZ, I'm sure you'll get plenty of driving out of it!

Best

Mark

[Morty]

Nice work on the thread Mark. I don't have numbers to back up my own experiences across several vehicles but this reflects my own experiences.

I went through this excerise back around 1997 and used maintenance costs of friends 60, 75 & 80 series diesels and compared to expected costs of a petrol 80 series. The calculations showed the overall cost of the petrol to be cheaper to own over a period calculated to be 10 years. The downside I experienced was range.

My "suburban" driving is inner city which is mostly stoped then a race to the next red light 100 meters down the road. My Au Falcon was averaging 18 liters/100km. An older less advanced engine in a lighter vehicle and a light foot. Get out into the suburbs and it was around 11-12L/100km in it's newer days when I was further out from the city. Open road driving was 7-11L/100km with the higher figures as it got older. City speeds over months would average 20-30km/h

So do a bit of fuzzy extrapolation and a petrol 120 series would see me in that 17L/100 as a minimum but take the Falcon as a guide and probably closer to 20L/100. I ended up with a 1kz-te diesel (more by circumstance) and I must be doing an average of 11-13L/100 but this is an early estimate.

So taking my city driving, take the worst city driving you encounter in Sydney and things start to sway toward the diesel.

As for fuel prices I've only been looking at BP Ultimate diesel vs typical 91 octane petrol. Diesel is around 1.32/L and petrol around $1.15 to $1.25. A small BP at Summer hill is $1.199 (or typical $0.12 cheaper than the other BP's). If they continue a price advantage and are on par with the cheapest petrol of the fuel cycle and things are indeed on the side of the diesel in my case at this juncture in time. Next week, month and the years ahead could be very different.

Disclaimer: I have no recorded fuel consumption for a petrol or diesel Prado in Sydney's inner city traffic. Diesel figures will become available in the future.

[GR1]

Charts are all readable now, thanks

Very nice comparison chart!

[Whitey]

Hey again,

...and here is a bigger image of the final analysis of the model, showing the variation of savings with economy;



Best

Mark

[Whitey]

Hey,

Here is a bigger image of the historical price for diesel and petrol;



Best

Mark

[Whitey]

Hey GR1,

Here is a direct link to the historical national average price of diesel and petrol in Australia;

http://s22.postimg.org/6fbgluljl/nat...and_diesel.jpg

...and here is the link to the final model results;

http://s10.postimg.org/btt4jalah/Mul...onomies_v2.jpg

I think the embedded thumbnail links sometimes don't work if you are using a phone to view them, so hopefully you can see both of these direct links on a normal computer.

Best

Mark