Fog Lights in South Australia illegal to use

[Guest Close Guest]

Re: Fog Lights in South Australia illegal to use

Unless SA has got some new fibre networks or pumped up NextG, I would call this one creative journalism. The down/up load requirements are currently restricting live rego/insurance cameras - the datasets are massive and dynamic i.e. it needs refreshing almost every minute.
(

Been involved in this a bit, and I can assure you SA has an infrastructured network state wide more than capable of doing this taks at least to double the capacity it requires currently..

Even the traffic camera networks are pumped up now down here, up to 22 Megapixel IP cameras etc. Enough to see what colour eyes the driver has inside a car in some cases...

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

Re: Fog Lights in South Australia illegal to use

You might remember several years ago GMH (Holden) got in the poo when they released a new statesman model that had "running" or "driving" lights fitted into the lower spoiler. They were always on when the engine was running. Holden had to fix the problem and changed the system by putting a switch onto the dash to give the driver choice of when to use them. Then followed a whole lot of who-ha about driving vs fog lights, wattage had to be less than 25W.

Once again, people should refer to the DoTaRS website when it comes to vehicle standards - the states all now refer to these as the national guidelines. There is some sections that differ quite a lot from the WA Vehicle Standards and Regulations. Even qualified engineers are being drawn into the fray now by motorists getting into to trouble for modifications and being required to comply before registration. I've just helped my brother get his 75 XB Coupe registered with a 460 big block, auto, slotted discs, rear trunk mounted battery, speedo calibration - all had to be engineer approved before the DPI would licence the car.

He's not even allowed to run the early XB speedo which was in both MPH and KPH. There was no indicated line for 50KPH. He had to source, and have calibration certified, a later model XB speedo which reads only in KPH.

[Madkore Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Madkore]

Re: Fog Lights in South Australia illegal to use

I came across this Post on ExploreOz forum about changes to the road rules for all states and territories from January 25 this year. About the fog lights it states:

Fog lights

Drivers can only use front fog lights in hazardous weather conditions. This brings the rule into line with the existing situation for rear fog lights. Use of fog lights in other conditions can dazzle oncoming drivers. Previously front fog lights that dazzled approaching drivers were dealt with as an offence under a different rule.

Penalty $140

I wonder if you could classify night time as a hazardous weather condition?

Defining 'hazardous weather condition' sounds very subjective to me.

[tileys Member Find all posts View Profile Close tileys]

Re: Fog Lights in South Australia illegal to use

That last post hit the nail on the head...it's bizarre writing a law that's so open to interpretation. I know that in the UK the law is that if visibility is under 200m then you can put your fog lights on - that's pretty conclusive and hard to argue your way out of and easy enough to enforce. I got pulled over there driving my Audi with the fogs on cause I thought they looked cool (I know...I was younger and more impressionable then... - the cop just asked me to turn them off. If you're caught in heavy rain behind someone with their rear fog lights on it's a real assault on the eyes

[Croozer Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Croozer]

Re: Fog Lights in South Australia illegal to use

In regards to Spurio's comment about highway patrol vehicles having more advanced systems in the future, in NSW at least, most highway vehicles already have number plate recognition system installed and can read numerous registration plates simultaneously allowing vehicles that are unregistered and uninsured and suspended/cancelled drivers to be caught amongst other abilities. Im not really sure what the issue with these systems is as they actually serve to help keep uninsured and unregistered cars off the road. I understand the arguments about speed, legislation regarding fog lights and so forth, but surely these in-car systems can only be a good thing.

[peteandkyles Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close peteandkyles]

Re: Fog Lights in South Australia illegal to use

I wonder if you could classify night time as a hazardous weather condition?

Defining 'hazardous weather condition' sounds very subjective to me.

You are right. This is how it stands in SA
217—Using fog lights
(1) The driver of a vehicle fitted with front fog lights or rear fog lights must not operate
the fog lights unless the driver is driving in fog or other hazardous weather conditions
causing reduced visibility.
Offence provision.

(2) In this rule:
front fog light means a light (other than a headlight) fitted to the front of a vehicle to
improve illumination of the road in fog, snowfall, heavy rain or dust clouds.
rear fog light means a light (other than a brake light, a tail light, a number plate light
or a reversing light) fitted to the rear of a vehicle to make the vehicle more easily
visible from the rear in fog, snowfall, heavy rain or dust clouds.

And the National Road Rules as published by the NTC are exactly the same...

I wonder how long before someone chalenges this. Adverse weather conditions could be considered to be a very dark moonless night...

[Madkore Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Madkore]

Re: Fog Lights in South Australia illegal to use

I think thats where the argument stands at the minute.

Cops will continue to fine people because thats how the cops interpret the law. At the end of the day, all laws are interpretable, thats why we have Lawyers. What tends to happen is that people get fined and just take it on the chin, because they can't be bothered taking it any further. What hopefully will happen is that someone with too much time, and money, on their hands, will actually challenge this one day and hopefully a precendent will get set, where night time country roads will be defined as a 'hazardous weather condition'.

Provided you are not dazzingly any oncoming drivers, I don't know why the cops are so anal about extra lights, since all that most people are trying to do is provide a safer environment to drive in should they have to drive at night.

[peteandkyles Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close peteandkyles]

Re: Fog Lights in South Australia illegal to use

Provided you are not dazzingly any oncoming drivers, I don't know why the cops are so anal about extra lights, since all that most people are trying to do is provide a safer environment to drive in should they have to drive at night.

Well I did ask why it is an issue and I was advised that by the local police that
"we have several new laws in SA that have come into effect and we have been given a directive to fine all offenders as the amnesty is now over"

Revenue raising? Maybe this is where the wonderful "free" handout from Mr Krudd will be collected from... Lucky from my end that we do have in town cops with common sense who are truly interested in public safety and not just revenue raising.

[Croozer Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Croozer]

Re: Fog Lights in South Australia illegal to use

Personally, i do find fog lights a hinderance and annoying. Ive had vehicles fitted with foglights and do not find them to be of any use. I already have two big headlights fitted to the front of my vehicle; what do I hope two extra small lights to contribute to my safety or others? After spending much time living in Europe where fog lights are most common on vehicles given their wild and foggy weather, it was fairly evident most drivers never used their foglights unless they were in weather conditions that caused extreme visibility limitations. For most other conditions driver's rarely if ever use their fog lights, primarily because they are of no use. Even the Italians rarely use fog lights as even they do not consider them to be particularly 'cool' to use! If lighting is an issue and your headlights are weak, then fit spot lights. If fog lights were that much of a safety issue, then surely all cars would be fitted with them, like airbags or seatbelts. Rather, they are generally fitted to higher grade models, particularly in Australia, as many consumers think 'they look good'. Fog lights really are more often than not a gimick that helps a vehicle stand out as a more expensive model.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Re: Fog Lights in South Australia illegal to use

Got to agree with most of the comments here. The only time I ever had need of fog lights was in WA one winter morning and I was driving through milk on the way up to Collie. The fog lights were useless then too come to think of it.

On the Prado I had spread driving lights fitted to the bullbar instead of fogs, much more use as they light up both sides of the road; the fogs on my E series clubbie are so weak and useless I cannot believe anyone would ever bother to switch them on, even if the lights are just on park you cannot tell the difference between fogs on and off!

I too get annoyed by the front fogs on XRs, SS's, WRX's etc being used for the wank factor but not as much as the tools in Excel's and the like with their rear fog light that must be about 50W! So it's about time these idiots were pulled over.

[two+four Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close two+four]

Re: Fog Lights in South Australia illegal to use

I used my fog lights about 6 weeks ago in WA, I was camping at Dwellingup and was returning to the campsite in nanga mill when some idiots in 2 wheel drives pulled out of the Chudditch campsite turn off just in front of me and proceded to race off towards Nanga. The second car just about had me in his boot as he did not even slow down to check to see if another vehicle was coming as he turned onto the road.

Anyway the point to the story is those idiots stirred up so much dust that the glare from the headlights made it almost impossiable to see. I switched on the Fogs dropped back to park lights and continued to drive on to Nanga, admittadly a little slower as I half expected to find one of them over the bank or wrapped around a tree.

Neil

[halojump Member Find all posts View Profile Close halojump]

Re: Fog Lights in South Australia illegal to use

I too would have to agree with the sentiments here. I see little need for the fog lights on , especially during the clear light of the day. There is no doubt a need in exceptional circumstances such as dust and actual fog, maybe even really heavy rain.

The argument around increased visibility is an interesting one (as a justification for daylight usage) ; I'd argue that during the day if someone cant see a fairly large 4x4 hurtling towards them, they're probably not gonna see you any better with fog lights on.

I often will switch my headlights on when I am on the long stretches of highway (esp. the very light coloured concrete variety) as I find it gives me a bit of assurance that oncoming traffic will see me through the heat haze. I don't think, for this purpose though fog lights are of any real advantage over normal headlights.

I see a few of the new Hiluxes have the LED daytime running lights (not quite as fancy as the new Mercedes, Audi or Porsches); these are probably a more suitable solution if you need daytime running lights.

With respect to the law and being fined for having your lights on, well I guess if the rule is there, nationally or otherwise, the coppers have a duty to enforce it. How vigilant they are in this enforcement, I guess comes down to the individual copper.

[jarrah7rally Member Find all posts View Profile Close jarrah7rally]

Re: Fog Lights in South Australia illegal to use

My first comment here is- So much for our "australian standards" according to some road experts road laws & ADR are the same across all states - I have a funny feeling they are wrong.

WA use of fog lights is illegal unless the conditions warrant the use of them, how I am supposed to know what conditions warrant using them is beyond me.

WA rules also state that the fog lights MUST be able to be switched on with the park lights and automatically turn off when the headlights are switched on - means need to install change over relay.

Exactly how many "new" cars today have this feature I am not sure of but I am certain just about every one of them would actually fail the pit test if the examiners were to look at the ADR's and test the fog light wiring, its bound to stay on when turning the headlights on.

I have used them quite to good effect in heavy rain (road covered with water) allowing myself to see the road without having too much glare from the normal headlights, first car just after the P plates long time ago.

The same thing can be said & done in convoys with heavy dust allows one to see the road just in front with out being blinded by the bounce back.

Hella have introduced a ADR approved Daytime running light (uses LED) for 12-24 V mainly truck but applicable to cars as well. source: Hella product news Issue 38

My question issue is would I be able to install these units and have them lit up whilst driving and still be legal, I ALWAYS drive with headlights on and certain that some drivers find this intimitating, personally I would like to use a low wattage light allowing myself to be "seen" without "blinding" other road users, remebering that low beam still uses 55w.

Food for thought

[longdog Member Find all posts View Profile Close longdog]

Re: Fog Lights in South Australia illegal to use

It's simple:

Daytime: If you want to be seen more, use parking lights, or low beam headlights.
Nighttime: Use low beam headlights unless no other traffic, in which case turn on everything you have except your fog lights.
Fog: use your fog lights without your headlights. This is how they should be wired - the only reason they aren't is to satisfy those who think they are cool. Marketing.

Fog lights are for fog (or other low visibility situations eg heavy rain). They serve no other purpose. Don't use them unless for their intended purpose. The law agrees with me on this but they are only catching up slowly. I wish the ADR would mandate.

I hate cars coming at me with fog lights on, they only do it because they think it's cool. It's not, it dazzles and therefore dangerous.

Now that I have 4xHID driving lights on my 120, I have my own special way of letting oncoming traffic know that they are mis-using fog lights. Works a treat

[alexr Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close alexr]

Re: Fog Lights in South Australia illegal to use

Here is a solution to all you people who want to run with a Day Time Light
These are available from all Hella stockists please note

5607 LED Daytime Running Lamp Kit
Description Universal round daytime running lamp (DRL) equipped with 3 x high-performance LEDs and high-sheen metallised free-form (FF) reflectors for a superior signal pattern and maximum visibility to oncoming traffic during the day. Automatically switches on when the engine is started and switches off when the main headlamps are activated or the engine is turned off. Robust, die-cast aluminium housing with cooling fins and clear polycarbonate lens for increased durability. Set of 2 lamps supplied with pre-assembled professional harness, relay and waterproof AMP plug.


Voltage Multivolt (9-33V DC)
Suitable for 12V and 24V vehicle electrical systems.


Wattage 12V <5W (single lamp)
24V <11W (single lamp)


Mounting Upright or pendant. Universal mounting bracket included.


ADR Complince No 76/00


ADR Function: Daytime Running Lamp


CRN 39474