Grande Airbag Retaining after a Lift

[craigm]

The other issue Im not sure of is, if the bottom pin is captive, will that transfer undue force to the bag (stretching) or top pins on max extension (or over extension)???

Mmmm Good point. This is probably where the retaining straps may be a better option, having the ability of limiting over extension without the any stress on the bag. Having said that, the later models (& the US 2007 4Runner) it would appear?, only use the "key lock mechanism" to retain these airbags.

[1coolbanana]

I was actually thinking more along the lines of not removing them completely but just to lower the diff housing assembly low enough for the lower pins to come out enough to cross drill them.
They appear to be captive at the top, so lowering the housing enough should expose the pin as in Peter image (but more)



Removing them completely would be nice and drill then properly in a drill press making sure the holes are nice and square etc but there is too many associated issues like the ones youve highlighted with kits and O rings etc.

Well thats the theory at least, not sure what happens when the pins come right out and if its an issue to get them back in or not but Im guessing that if the entire rear end of the body is lifted parallel with the diff housing, it should pretty much be aligned with the holes.

This is all just an assumption!

The other issue Im not sure of is, if the bottom pin is captive, will that transfer undue force to the bag (stretching) or top pins on max extension (or over extension)???

[craigm]

That shold do the trick Marc. Note however, if removing the pnuematic cylinder assembly (what cant they just call it an airbag???) it is recomended to replace the o-rings as well as a new plate & height control plug. (see below...) This is most likely a kit from Toyota.


There is also a trick to removing the tube. detail as follows. I dont know if the "tube removal" tool is really required. It may even come in the kit?

[1coolbanana]

Cripes......you guys have been busy

BTW. Mines looks exactly the same as your two 04's.

Like my original thought, cross drilling and fitting an "R" pin but maybe lifting them out to do it might be a solution?

[Peterpilot]

Mine are exactly the same as yours, Craig:



I also put some chassis stands underneath to extend the suspension to full droop and managed to partially dislodge an airbag while it was deflated:



If you wanted to remove the airbag, it wouldn't be too difficult:



I can see how the retaining straps work by preventing the airbag from dislodging when it starts to bulge at the rear.

[craigm]

Ok, these pics show that the air bag seating pin doesnt appear to be key'd although a keyhole exists on the diff mount. Drivers side is certainly accessible to possibly insert some kind of retaining Pin, however the passengers side (3rd image) would be somewhat trickier but most likely doable.

[Peterpilot]

Thanks Craig,
Until Geeves posts us a picture of this mysterious mounting pin retainer mod, then we'll have to grab another tall glass!

As you say, the 4Runner may be slightly different because I haven't read anything about a locking system, even on the later models. Only a brief reference to a longer mounting pin:

Very early ones had issues, and could pop the bag, Toyota put longer retainer clips on them, and as long as your mechanic doesnt turn the ignition on whilst its on the hoist, and we have done the retainer fix, they shouldnt ever be an issue.

After some searching, I also found this information:

I cant say longer bags would be a fix for anything useful, unless using shocks longer than the aftermarket ones currently used, because the standard bags just work, and retaining the mounting pin fixes the blowout problem some have.

820mm height with standard shocks would be right on the limit for droop of the rear shock as well, so to run this height self levelling doesnt really make sense to me.

So it seems that the limit of rear height with standard Toyota airbags is only about a 30mm lift above standard height of approx 780mm, which is OK if the front is lifted about 40mm above standard height of approx 750mm. This would give you a normal ride height of around 790mm front and 810mm rear, regardless of how much weight was carried in the back.

[craigm]

Thanks Peter
as I mentioned in my last post, these docs are from a 2007/8 US 4Runner. Mine (and yours) are an 04 model. Perhaps the bags have been modded since to avoid the bags 'popping out" as previously experienced by people. Or the 4Runner is a completely different setup? Someone with a later model 120 Grande may be able to get Geeves to have a look under their truck and have a look? With regards to the second image in your pics that Darren from Autocraft provided (thank you wherever you are...), shows a small gap in the Airbag mount of the diff. we may be able to sneak a peak at the inside of this to confirm if there is a key locking mechanism. The wifes out at the moment with the car so I cant take a look but will investigate later.

[Peterpilot]

Apparently Auto-Craft no longer uses this method, but this is how the retaining/limiting straps were fitted: http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l=1#post182777

found some pics that may help, in the mean time, the large round fitting goes into the hole in pic 2 with bolt coming out horizontal, the stud goes up through the only hole it fits into in the chassis directly behind the air bag, pointing up at the floor of the car.

[Peterpilot]

Marc
Found this which shows a reasonable detail of how the base of the air bag fits into a key hole on the rear axle assembly and is rotated 90 degrees to lock it in place. the top appears to be held in place with a clip. How strong these are is anyones guess but I'm sure someone out there has some ideas on how to provide a more secure fixing. (I will email you the pdf's)
Note... these are from a US 2007 4Runner manual...
Now back to my tall glass. Where is that damn Geeves!!!!

If there is a "lock" on the base of the airbag in the Grande, then the airbag is already captive at the base and there is no need for a modification to stop it from unseating. My understanding is that the air bag base sits on top of the spring mount and the bottom mount simply locates the air bag in the spring seat.

I have a copy of the installation instructions for the Airbag Man kit and it doesn't say anything about rotating 90 degrees to remove the original air bag:

The air springs can be removed from the vehicle
by first removing the top retaining clip using a flat
screwdriver or small wire, then lifting up the bottom
of the spring from the lower spring seat.

Nor do the instructions say anything special about a lock when installing the Airbag Man airbags:

The bottom mount simply sits down on and into the spring seat like the original air spring.

[craigm]

Marc
Found this which shows a reasonable detail of how the base of the air bag fits into a key hole on the rear axle assembly and is rotated 90 degrees to lock it in place. the top appears to be held in place with a clip. How strong these are is anyones guess but I'm sure someone out there has some ideas on how to provide a more secure fixing. (I will email you the pdf's)
Note... these are from a US 2007 4Runner manual...
Now back to my tall glass. Where is that damn Geeves!!!!

[tassie tiger]

I thought Geeves did all the work on Grandes whilst their owners quaffed from tall glasses.

[1coolbanana]

I can hear the crickets!

[craigm]

Ahhh good a guinea pig.... I will watch this closely as the airbag issue is the only thing thats stopping me doing mine myself too. hopefully Marc there is someone out there who has the info that is willing to share as up till now, it would seem to be a "closely guarded secret". I downloaded a US service and repair manual for the 2007 4Runner with all the bells & whistles which includes info on suspension Airbags, sensor arms etc... But obviously nothing on how to modify.

[1coolbanana]

Hi all
I will be doing my own suspension lift upgrade soon, since there seems to be a few Grandes with it done, I was hoping someone can show me a pic or describe the method of retaining the airbags and whats required so that I can do what is necessary to stop the possible airbag "pop out" myself?

Searched but can only find references to it being done with pins or straps but nothing specific.

From what Im understanding the top of the airbags is captive but the lower pins are the issue? ?
So from what I can gather its the lower pins that needs to be made captive.

Whats the best method to do this?

I was thinking of drilling a hole, say 5mm through the pin that protrudes through the plate and use a 5mm "R" clip (like the spring clip on the tow hitch pin).

Am I on the right track or completely on the wrong track? (quite likely!)

Any help would be appreciated.
Cheers
Marc