Suspension Database

[zerosecta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zerosecta]

Hi Folks, Just been talking to Dobinsons in an effort to get something for my Prado - Rear currently at around 830mm but need it to be around 865 or so.

They have a Coil with part# C59-397 free height 460mm and rate of 225

So should give a Prado with no load in the rear somewhere between 3" - 4" lift once settled.

Cheers

[Fronty Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Fronty]

Hi guys,
Just dug up this thread as I'm cotemplating changing my Ironman front coils (TOY055C 50-100kg constant load) with Dobinsons C59-302 (60-100kgs load), but it appears as though the 302's are lighter than the factory front springs. Is this right?

[gxl_d4d Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close gxl_d4d]

Hi
I was looking at KYB shocks and am struggling with what length shock I need for the rear. The stock shock and the recommended KYB shock are similar length open and closed. The back of my car is 40mm higher than standard. Does this mean the shock will top out? Should I be using the length recommended for th 150 prado and will this mean the shock bottoms out?

Standard Prado 120 575 219 356

KYB S4 845022 570 220 350
KYB S4 845032 602 237 365 (Prado 150 shock)
KYB S4 845004 608 238 370 (80 Series Shock)

[Joshy Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joshy]

Whats the longest CLOSED length rear shock you can install without needing to space the bumps? I've pulled the springs and measured it before but didn't write it down. From memory I think it was about 400mm after allowing for bump compression. I'm looking at getting some new longer shocks but don't want to space the bumps more than 20mm or so. Someone save me from pulling the springs and doing it again!

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey Joshy,

This is your original report from p9 of the suspension database.

I played with my suspension yesterday and took a few measurements and thought I might post them up here. I was also wondering if anyone else has done the same and if they found theirs to be similar.
I pulled the rear springs (Dobinsons I think C59-327's) and dropped the car onto the bump stops and measured the distance between the shock mounts to be 410mm. I then dropped the diff down and measured up when the springs are close to getting loose and measured 680mm between the shock mounts. So I'm now on the hunt for shocks with around 400mm closed and 670mm open. I need to get longer brake lines too as they're starting to get tight at full extension and I might space the bump stops 10-20mm just to be on the safe side (allow for the bumpstop to compress a few mm). I've also got firestones so I can't imagine they would allow the diff to contact the bumps anyway. Closest I've found so far are the Profender 4inch shocks. Once I get all that sorted I'll have to look at what to do with the swaybar as it with be a major limiting factor.

I am however slightly confused about how you measured the open length of 680mm. If you did this you must have disconnected the brake lines, as they bind at around 610-615mm open length, right around the same length the factory swaybar binds.

Can you remember disconnecting the brake lines?

Whats the longest CLOSED length rear shock you can install without needing to space the bumps? I've pulled the springs and measured it before but didn't write it down. From memory I think it was about 400mm after allowing for bump compression. I'm looking at getting some new longer shocks but don't want to space the bumps more than 20mm or so. Someone save me from pulling the springs and doing it again!

I have also done some measurements;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...ado-120-series

Here I found about 405mm the diff housing was just lightly touching the bumpstop.

How long are your new shocks going to be? You'll also need to extend your swaybar links by up to 30mm, see here;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...imum-extension

I haven't yet measured where my swaybar binds now with the 30mm longer links, as I need to put in my longer brake lines first!

Be interested to know what shocks you're considering!

Best

Mark

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey again Joshy,

I realised I didn't actually answer your question properly....what is the longest closed length without needing to space the bumpstops?

That's a difficult question to answer, as it comes down to how close you want to push things.

The closed length on the factory shock is 356mm, which leaves a bump gap of around 405-356 = 49mm, which corresponds roughly to the thickness of the bumpstop.

I'm running a 365-618mm shock at the moment, and I haven't spaced the bumpstop, so I've closed my bump gap down to around 40mm.

Keep in mind also that the top part of the bumpstop has a gap in it and can easily be torn off (about 10mm of the top part of the bumpstop).

I believe Toyota has engineered the bump safety shock travel gaps at the front and the back to equal the thickness of the bumpstops.

Assuming the worst case scenario of the bumpstop coming off, you then have to ask yourself do you prefer the diff housing to hit the chassis, or your shock to bump out?

Further assuming that you knew about the bumpstop coming off and you wanted to drive out safely, then you should make the closed length no shorter than around 365mm so the shock doesn't bump out.

So after all of that, I'm guessing the safest bet would be to space the bumpstops equal to the difference between the longer closed length of the shock you buy and 365mm. eg, if you want to run a 400mm closed length, then you should space the bumpstop by 400-365 = 35mm.

That's only if you wish to preserve the Toyota engineered safety margin...you could cut into this gap, but then you risk bumping out your shocks with a total bumpstop failure.

I know a lot of guys in the FJ blue room have discussed this in detail, and are running off the shelf MetalTech kits that get the shock open length down past 700mm, but they utilise a ridiculous 3" solid bumpstop spacer, and sacrifice a lot of bump travel. Many are complaining about constantly riding the bumpstops, so this kind of craziness may give awesome down travel in the rear, but I personally wouldn't try it.

Here is the 40 page thread from the blue room;

http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forum...uspension.html

I guess the moral of this story is that if you wanna run a really long open length shock, then you should carry a spare set of bumpstops....just like you would carry any other suspension component if you are travelling in really remote country.

Best

Mark

[Joshy Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joshy]

Hi Mark,

Id completely forgotten id posted that. Wow, two years to get new shocks is hopeless!! I must only have had my lift in for less than a year at that point.

Nah i definitely didn't disconnect brake lines. I currently have tough dog 80 series shocks that measure 620 open and there's still heaps left in the brake lines. They possibly change with models? I have an 08 1KD GXL. I've got a new set up struts turn up today (went with Profender after much thought) so I'll measure up the rear again when I put the fronts in to make sure i got it right. I'm going to use Profender in the rear as well with either a 3inch (395mm closed, 650mm open) or 4inch (405mm closed, 670mm open). Most likely the 3inch will work best. I dont want to space bumps more than i have to as i don't want to lose much up travel. Id also have to work out something with the sway bars and possibly get superior lcas as well.

Thanks for the info on the closed lengths, i was curious as to how far the bump would compress. I'll keep it in mind when i work out how far i'll space my bumps. I should be putting my struts in over the weekend so i'll let you know what i find!

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Nah i definitely didn't disconnect brake lines. I currently have tough dog 80 series shocks that measure 620 open and there's still heaps left in the brake lines. They possibly change with models? I have an 08 1KD GXL.

went with Profender after much thought

Hey Joshy,

That's interesting. I've got an 06 petrol GXL, and my rear brake lines bind right in between 610-615mm. Any chance you could measure the length of your lines while you're underneath?

Just one thing to watch out for on the Profender front struts is coil bind, see the photos in post #12 in this thread;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...-Prado-120-IFS

I couldn't believe the poor bloke was getting coil bind until I saw those photos!

I don't know if they're still like that, but you may wanna speak with Superior about it and get the front coils changed to avoid this!

Keep us posted about how your install goes!

Best

Mark

[Joshy Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joshy]

Yeah I'll measure the brake lines up when I'm under there playing with the rear. Haven't gotten to that yet... I only got one side done on the front and half way through the second and got interrupted. Should get it completed tomorrow, then have a play with the rear.

I had a look at the other thread, and now I'm glad i didn't go for the coilover. I looked at them but they didn't have a suitable spring for the weight I have over the front. I got the 2-4inch strut, adjustable with remote res, and kept my dobinsons (can't remember what model, but they'lll have to be upgraded as well when i get my second battery installed and hopefully winch in the not too distant future). But now you've mentioned it i'll make sure it doesn't bind on droop.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

I'm going to use Profender in the rear as well with either a 3inch (395mm closed, 650mm open) or 4inch (405mm closed, 670mm open. Most likely the 3inch will work best. I dont want to space bumps more than i have to as i don't want to lose much up travel. Id also have to work out something with the sway bars and possibly get superior lcas as well.

Hey Joshy,

I just measured the rear open length at which the lower trailing arm will bind on the axle housing, at 700mm;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l-measurements

If you're planning on running a 650 or 670mm shock without the sway bar, you wouldn't need the offset Superior arms.

If you want to keep the sway bar in, the maximum link extension is about 30mm before the link binds on the lower trailing arm. With the longer links, I'm not sure what open length the sway bar will bind at, but I'll measure it this weekend as I'm putting in new rear coils.

I'm guessing you won't get all of the extra 30mm back, so the sway bar will prolly bind at less than 615 + 30 = 645mm. This won't be enough to run the 650mm shock. You definitely want the shocks to top out before the sway bar.

See my thread on extended links here;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...imum-extension

The contact point of the link along the lower trailing arm is about 240mm from the front bush center.

If all you need is about 30 + 10mm extra on the sway bar, then the offset Superior arms may get you there, as they will sit lower than the factory arms...how much lower below the link I couldn't say unless I put one in!

I'm trying to solve this problem as well, as my new coils will give an extra 1" lift which I will lose in droop, so I plan to recover it with a longer shock. I currently run a 618mm open length Durashock....which I can use a longer shaft in to get out past 618 + 25 = 643mm, so in the same territory you're trying to reach.

Tricky geometry to get right with keeping the sway bar in!

Keep us posted about how you go with your rear end setup.

Best

Mark

[Joshy Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joshy]

I finished off installing the struts this evening. But I've found that unfortunately the UCA just contacts the coil on full droop now. Great excuse for new UCA's but not what I was hoping for. Is this common? Strut as mentioned is profender 2-5inch lift. Measures 435mm closed 573mm open.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

I finished off installing the struts this evening. But I've found that unfortunately the UCA just contacts the coil on full droop now. Great excuse for new UCA's but not what I was hoping for. Is this common? Strut as mentioned is profender 2-5inch lift. Measures 435mm closed 573mm open.

Hey Joshy,

Yep it's a common problem when running struts out past 570mm.

My front strut is 570mm exactly, and I have the same problem.

You can get around it by rotating the coil until the arm fits snugly in between 2 coils. I've done this and don't have any more contact, although I'm sure the ball joint is probably either bound or very close to binding inside the boot.

Best

Mark

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Strut as mentioned is profender 2-5inch lift. Measures 435mm closed 573mm open.

Hey again Joshy,

I wasn't aware that you could run a standard coil with the Profenders. Have Superior supplied you with a custom made coil seat and cap?

What lift are you running and how much droop did you end up with?

Best

Mark

[Joshy Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joshy]

What lift are you running and how much droop did you end up with?

Ok i might just rotate it to see if i can stop it until i get UCA's.

I didn't actually measure the droop, but ride height is uneven. I'll have to tweak it a little tomorrow, as well as where i've run the remote resi. Drivers side was 810mm and passenger was 823m. I was aiming for 815mm.

I wasn't aware that you could run a standard coil with the Profenders. Have Superior supplied you with a custom made coil seat and cap?

I think you're thinking of these:
https://www.superiorengineering.com....593?filter=239


When i only have these:
https://www.superiorengineering.com....537?filter=239

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey amts,

Could you add the 8-way adjustable Profenders from Superior Engineering into the database;

Front strut 435-573mm

Rear shock 395-650mm

Best

Mark