Spacer vs warranty

[Whitey]

I know that a few manufacturers have taken their coil making business offshore to India etc & their product quality has gone somewhat south.

Hey all,

Isn't there only "a few" major coil manufacturers in Australia, King Springs (who make ARB coils), Dobinsons, Lovells, and a couple more small scale manufacturers in Sydney and Melbourne.

So does this mean they are all outsourcing manufacturing to India?????

There's no doubt that none of the major coil manufacturers can supply coils that are "in-spec" all of the time. The quality control is pretty poor when a manufacturer says 4-5mm difference in free height is acceptable.

Regarding which coil is the best to use, I've read/heard a thousand different opinions. Driving on them yourself will also give another thousand different subjective opinions.

In more technical terms, I'm not sold on King coils using less windings with their magical XK5 steel, for 4wd'ing purposes, saving 30% weight on coil springs is neither here nor there.

Similarly, I've seen Dobinsons coil spring pairs with 4-5mm difference in free height, and flat ground ends that sit outside the outer coil diameter, which rub on the coil seat, or need grinding back.

Having said all that, I haven't seen a Prado like Matts which is suffering 12-17mm of difference in ride height. We can already see that his coils from ARB are quite obviously very different in spring rate.

So who do we get high quality coils from, King shocks, Icon??? I believe King shocks still make their coils in the USA?

...and to the burning question at hand, what then are the best coils that Matt can use to get a level Prado?

Best

Mark

[wholesalesuspension]

Don't take me too wrong, i really don't mind the Aqua ones, i have just replaced a lot of them over recent years for people who aren't happy with their ride heights over time. I am a fan of their longer springs with softer rates in the right situations.
I obviously like and use a lot of the King's stuff because i usually supply them, forget them & don't have headaches with them.
For the last 6-7 years they have been using only the best X5K steel available & are the Only Spring manufacturer to offer a limited lifetime warranty against sagging.
They also make a fair few other springs on the market for 4 or 5 of the other industry suspension suppliers and rebrand them for them accordingly. Sometimes these are just a copy of their own spring and sometimes to the manufacturers own designs as requested... This has been on the decline a little over the last couple of years as more of the industry has moved their purchasing offshore to save a few dollars & i really believe this is why we are regularly seeing more warranty issues with a lot of the suppliers. I think the quality is a lot harder to control.
We have often found if we don't keep on the backs of some of our offshore parts suppliers that the quality declines between batches.
Initially things will be made to our design and specs, then 12 months later you receive another order & they have made a cost cutting change without consent. We turn them around and send them back.
I'm not going to name the ones i know of that that have gone all or partly offshore for their production, but it is also now a few of the big names.

Just my 2 cents & i hope a not too biased 2 cents, as i often send people to other manufacturers if i believe that it will work better for what their particular setup is.

Regards, Jason.

Most certainly, depending on material used for the coil.

I know that a few manufacturers have taken their coil making business offshore to India etc & their product quality has gone somewhat south.

Regards, Jason.

Which are the better ones?

[wholesalesuspension]

Jason, in your experience, are there any that sags less than others?

Most certainly, depending on material used for the coil.

I know that a few manufacturers have taken their coil making business offshore to India etc & their product quality has gone somewhat south.

Regards, Jason.

Jason, in your experience, are there any that sags less than others?

[wholesalesuspension]

Those un named aqua-ish colour coils are not without their sagging issues either.

Regards, Jason.

[Whitey]

Hey all,

This problem looks to me as a clear cut case of the coils being different spring rates.

A difference of 5mm free height on the rear cannot explain a 12-17mm sag on one side. The motion ratio on the rear is 1:1, so a 5mm difference in free height between left and right coils of same spring rate will just show up as a 5mm difference in ride height.

This can easily be tested during a scrag test, or by simply using a hydraulic press to a fixed load and measuring the coil working height.

I would be removing all spacers, and re-install the coil springs, and check the working heights front and rear. Coils with same free height but different spring rates will show up with different working heights.

While you have the coils out, you could also find a mate with a hydraulic press and load test each coil to the same load, 500kg would be plenty, and get the working height on each.

Then you could take all of this technical information to ARB and prove to them that the coils are NOT within specification.

I know this is a lot of hassle, but it may be the only way to resolve the problem.

Then you can demand a refund for the OME coils, and get some Dobinsons and avoid potentially suffering the same problem again with replacement OME coils.

Not getting the front coils out is pretty slack, and they could easily have measured the working height and recognised that the coils are not in-spec.

Best

Mark

Yes, the front is so far out, spacers would not be the way to fix it. Can't believe that the fitter did not attend to the front as it is definitely out of the warranty acceptable limits.

Usually if you level out the front (side to side), the rears will follow suit.

[mjrandom]

I agree with you Jason and past versions of the local rules specifically excluded fitting spring spacers but the wording has changed and NCOP doesn't prohibit it either. Still waiting to hear back but on the face of it spacers are ok. I probably wouldn't have an issue using a levelling spacer for KDSS as long as the spring rates are correct but this just seems to me to be a cop out particularly since the front is so far out of kilter.

[wholesalesuspension]

Strut top spacers should be illegal.
By fitting them you take the bump stop on the lower arm out of play, and you then make the shock/strut assembly the bump stop.
You end up with components being put under stresses they were never designed for & eventual failure of something is imminent.

Just my 2 cents.

Regards, Jason.

[Mattfunk 120]

Thank you very much from frustrated party

[BiLLz0r]

I've been trolling through the QCoP/NCoP as well and found the same ruling. No specific rule saying spacers are illegal any more (I did read it once before though but I guess it's been updated since).

This is the document about standard up to 50mm lifts.
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/Sa...onsteering.pdf

[mjrandom]

Ok, having trolled through the latest updates spacers are no longer specifically excluded. So on that basis spacers are probably legal. Therefore what I wrote based on a previous edition of QCOP is not correct. Spacers ARE very likely legal. Sorry.

I will still contact an automotive engineer tomorrow to be sure.

EDIT: the only reference I can find about coils other than rate must equal or exceed the original is...

"Coil springs remain in locating seats on full suspension droop"

[Mattfunk 120]

That ok thank you . I won't get to go see manager in person till after Friday as have commitments with kids.

[mjrandom]

Definately not legal in Qld. Let me have a look at QCOP and I will give you the clauses. Won't be until later tonight.

EDIT: Refer later post, this probably isn't correct.