Dual Battery System

[Nifty07 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nifty07]

Re: Dual Battery System

Fitted the Auxillary battery bracket into the Prado 150, the battery goes in tomorrow. This bracket is for a N70 auxilliary battery. Some photos:

Before the mod (NOTE: This is a Diesel which has a different layout to the petrol as pictured in the above posting)



Mounting plate fitted. Note the airconditioning pipes have been moved about 50mm. You need to be careful that you dont bend the big pipe as it has a pipe in a pipe. The aircon people told me this pipe cannot be bent.



You need to make sure the little pipe going towards the radiator (bottom of the picture) does not contact any metal. I had to reposition mine a little to give it some clearance. Below is the part number for those chasing it.



I found it difficult to fit as there was a bit of pressure on the plate and the mounting holes did not seem to be precise. Took about 20 minutes. When I get the battery in and the cables hooked up will post a photo.

Nifty

[two+four Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close two+four]

Re: Dual Battery System

Just heard from ORE that they will have 12" Piranha Trays for 150 Diesel's and 10" Trays for 150 Petrols next week.

Neil

[ABR-SIDEWINDER Member Find all posts View Profile Close ABR-SIDEWINDER]

Re: Dual Battery System

Hi Nifty

How did you bend / move the a/c pipe, you would have needed to move it 3 inches or so towards the engine.

Unless you have the correct tools you may have placed excessive tension on pipes, joints and o-rings.

If these fracture they would not be covered by warranty and be very expensive to replace especially if they break off at the fire wall.

We considered this but found that even 1 inch movement caused undesirable tension on the pipes.

Have you got more pictures ?

Regards

Derek

[PeteF Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close PeteF]

Re: Dual Battery System

Hi Nifty & Derek,
I noted that Piranha are makimg different sized battery tray sizes for diesel and petrol engines.
Derek - your installation and pictures are for petrol version. Have you verified that your tray will also fit the diesel engine bay? If so, does it have extra clearance around the pipes compared to the petrol engine installation?
Thanks,
Pete

[ABR-SIDEWINDER Member Find all posts View Profile Close ABR-SIDEWINDER]

Re: Dual Battery System

Hi Nifty & Derek,
I noted that Piranha are making different sized battery tray sizes for diesel and petrol engines.
Derek - your installation and pictures are for petrol version. Have you verified that your tray will also fit the diesel engine bay? If so, does it have extra clearance around the pipes compared to the petrol engine installation?
Thanks,
Pete

Hi Pete

Our trays fit petrol and diesel and have sold many to diesel owners already, diesel has a bit more space as there is no power steering reservoir to move but ours is still limited to a 255mm battery, I was not prepared to bend / force the a/c pipe as it will eventually fracture.

Regards

Derek

[LeighW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LeighW]

Re: Dual Battery System

Hi guys,

Suggest that you read the thread on charge rate issues in the 120 forum if you haven't,
not sure if it applies to the 150 but it most likely does:

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7939

Cheers

LeighW

[fish71 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close fish71]

Re: Dual Battery System

Hi Derek

your work is great and as soon as my 150 arrives i will contact you for a dual battery kit, a question for you, is did you run the cable to the rear of the vehicle underneath or thorugh vehicle and id so how easy was it.

thanks

[ABR-SIDEWINDER Member Find all posts View Profile Close ABR-SIDEWINDER]

Re: Dual Battery System

Hi Derek

your work is great and as soon as my 150 arrives i will contact you for a dual battery kit, a question for you, is did you run the cable to the rear of the vehicle underneath or thorugh vehicle and id so how easy was it.

thanks

Hi Fish

We go through the cab, very easy and our kit shows you step by step.

[Hoges Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Hoges]

Re: Dual Battery System

Derek

Thanks for the battery tray. Had it fitted today, along with the rest of the dual battery system. The tray is sweet and neat.

[ABR-SIDEWINDER Member Find all posts View Profile Close ABR-SIDEWINDER]

Re: Dual Battery System

I have been running some tests on a 3A diode, 25 cents at Dick Smith, a blown fuse and a bit if solder and heat shrink. Grind a bit of the plastic away and solder the diode to the fuse. Keep the fuse cool with damp cloth during solder-work to prevent the plastic melting. This is my working sample and if all good I will have them professionally made at one of our supplier factories in Taiwan in a way that the 7.5A fuse can be reused and not relying on the diode to act as a fuse. I was thinking of using this design modified to our application. http://swecheck.com.au/phpcode/list_...128&series=525

My tests so far have been good.

Cold Engine: Was 14.1V - Now 14.45V
Hot Engine: Was 13.4V - Now 13.89V

I have been monitoring battery temperature and gassing and all seems okay.

I will try see what this does to fuel consumption figures.

Regards

Derek

[LeighW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LeighW]

Re: Dual Battery System

Hi all,

Firstly I will point out as the manufacturer of the Alternator Voltage Booster sold on Ebay that I do have a vestid interest in it. However after spending considerable time experimenting with different options I would like to point out why I believe my unit is far superior to a simple diode being inserted in the fuse box.

1/ I believe the type of diode specified by Derek, he can correct me if I'm wrong, would have been selected more for its mechanical properties than its electrical properties. The problem here is that to be mechanically strong enough means it has mass. The danger then is that on severe corrigations the diode can resonate resulting fatigue of the device leads and possible fracturing of the device package. Excess vibration and engine bay temperatures could also lead to failure of any solder joints.

2/ You will find that if you look inside modern automotive electonics assemblies, that all the larger devices are mechanically supported for the above reasons.

3/ You need to be very careful when insterting the diode to make sure the contacts connect properly with the fuse holder contacts and that the device won't dislodge over rough terrain. You should also insulate the device leads to prevent accidental shorts.

4/ The use of a 3A device does not provide the same level of protection to the sensing circuit as the 7.5A fuse did. It is assumed that if a short was to develope in the sensing circuit that the 3A diode will burn out and go open. I can tell you that having spent many years in the electronics design, maintenance and construction areas that there is no guarantee the device will go open. If the device should go short circuit under a fault condition the device leads are quite capable of carry much more than the 7.5A specified for the original fuse, and damage to the Alternator, Alternator wiring or even a possible fire is a definate possibility.

5/ Diodes ain't diodes, all electronics components have differing properties. By careful selection it is possible to choose types that have slightly different characterists and therefore give improved charge voltages in this application.

After trying many different types of diodes over several thousand kilometers of testing I have settled on a SMD device that I believe gives a slightly better voltage drop and has a better forward voltage temperature coefficient than most resulting in a more stable characteristic charge voltage.

I have used back to back devices in the package, therefore the device is non polarised and can be inserted either way round. Or should the device fail, then simply inserting the opposite way around will get you going again.

The SMD devices are potted into a standard fuse blade assembly using epoxy resin to ensure their mechanical integrity and that no damage can be caused by water ingress into the package.

Being potted in a standard fuse assembly means the SMD devices are fully mechanical supported by the fuse holder assembly, yet can be very simply and safely removed and replaced at will for car servicing etc.

The SMD devices have a small lead area ensuring that under fault conditions ie, a short circuit in the sensing circuit will result in the device going open circuit at safe current flow thus preventing any damage to the vehicles wiring or Alternator.

Down side is the device is more expensive than a simple diode but also a more reliable and far safer option in my opinion. The reason for the high cost is that it does take quite awhile to hand assembly each package.

If anyone has any further questions please ask.

Cheers

LeighW

[Silvo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Silvo]

Re: Dual Battery System

I will try see what this does to fuel consumption figures.

Regards

Derek

Why would it change the fuel consumption figures?

Dan

[geoffmc Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close geoffmc]

Re: Dual Battery System

Just a thought,

What would Toyota do if the alternator dies as a result of voltage spike, if you take it in for a warranty claim. I would imagine they would plug in their OBD diagnostics tool and it would show an increased voltage reading and a spike.

Has anyone tried any of the Traxide range of products? I use their SC80 multi battery controller and have had absolutely no probs charging my dual batteries in the car and two on the camper. See http://www.traxide.com.au for more info.

Tim has a wealth of knowledge and is always available if you have any questions. I have no connection or am in no way recieving any benefits from Traxide, just have had great service and the product has been first rate.

cheers
Geoff

[ABR-SIDEWINDER Member Find all posts View Profile Close ABR-SIDEWINDER]

Re: Dual Battery System

I will try see what this does to fuel consumption figures.

Regards

Derek

Why would it change the fuel consumption figures?

Dan

Toyota lowered the voltages to lower the emissions. Increasing the voltage will put more load on the engine and also increase emissions again.

[ABR-SIDEWINDER Member Find all posts View Profile Close ABR-SIDEWINDER]

Re: Dual Battery System

Just a thought,

What would Toyota do if the alternator dies as a result of voltage spike, if you take it in for a warranty claim. I would imagine they would plug in their OBD diagnostics tool and it would show an increased voltage reading and a spike.

Has anyone tried any of the Traxide range of products? I use their SC80 multi battery controller and have had absolutely no probs charging my dual batteries in the car and two on the camper. See http://www.traxide.com.au for more info.

Tim has a wealth of knowledge and is always available if you have any questions. I have no connection or am in no way recieving any benefits from Traxide, just have had great service and the product has been first rate.

cheers
Geoff

Voltage is still with-in spec and the spike protection in the isolator should clamp any spikes, Tim thinks voltage spikes are a myth and has gone to great lengths to bad mouth all manufacturers who use spike protection in their devices.