Is the 150 showing any signs of cracked inner guards

[krypto]

I continue to evolve my thinking on tyre pressures, and there are many variables, but on a reasonable gravel road I would look at mid 20's, for bad roads low 20's, for horendous roads such as when I went into Mitchell falls, back into the teens and adjust speed accordingly. I have never found handling to be an issue with lower pressures assuming you adjust the speed to suit.

Cheers Andrew

With pressure in the 20s on a good gravel road you are actually giving up control for comfort, unless you are driving very slowly. With low tyre pressure the contact shape deforms causing the tyre to float more, have a look to see what happens to the bottom of tyre as the pressure drops. This reduces steering control and can increase braking distance. As well low tyre pressure causes more sidewall deformation and fatigue, and causes the tyre to heat up excessively.

So you need to be careful with pressures, it's not the same as slow 4wd driving. Definitely drop them on dirt roads but be careful by how much.

[AJ120]

Lots of interesting points of view in this thread, some I agree with, some I don't, but of everything written in this thread this stands out to me like the dogs proverbials!

Loaded on highway on Coopers I run 37-40 front and 39-42 rear.
On dirt I air down the coopers to low 30s and find 80 km hr a good speed for staying on top corrugations.
If the road is uneven I drive slower that that. If corrugations are particularly bad I'll drop pressures further although the car handles like crap which needs to be taken into account.

With those sorts of pressures on some of the roads you have mentioned, my first thought is WOW, lucky you got away with only cracked inner gaurds!

Like most things that go wrong it is probably a combination of a number of things that have contributed to the problem, but those pressures, especially the off road pressures to me would be one of the major contributing factors.

I continue to evolve my thinking on tyre pressures, and there are many variables, but on a reasonable gravel road I would look at mid 20's, for bad roads low 20's, for horendous roads such as when I went into Mitchell falls, back into the teens and adjust speed accordingly. I have never found handling to be an issue with lower pressures assuming you adjust the speed to suit.

Cheers Andrew

[SWR]

Gday Guys

Here below is a basic explanation of weight abbreviations.

"Gross Vehicle Mass" or "Gross Vehicle Weight Rating" (GVM or GVWR) weight is total vehicle weight with passengers/ Cargo/ Toe-ball weight/ All Accessories added & full fuel tank and fluids etc. EG: Dictates the maximum amount of weight that the vehicle can safely carry without causing damage.

EG: If heavy bar/ Winch/ Spotties/ compressor/ Battery etc are added to the front of the vehicle it will in-turn reduce the front axle carrying pay-load capacity's of total vehicle pay-load as the front axle has a maximum pay load. EG: 150 series Front axle maximum load is 1450 (Kg).

"TARE" weight is total vehicle weight without passengers/ Cargo. (Total stock standard from factory without heaver tyres/ Accessories as in its weight with minimum fuel in tank for average weight give or take a few Kg for transportation freight costs).

"Kerb Weight" is the total weight of a vehicle when it is full of fluids and ready to operate minus the weight of the driver and passengers. (Curb weight is also used to calculate vehicle shipping charges when having a vehicle delivered to a location by truck or ship). (similar to "TAR").

EG: Turbo Diesel Manual GXL Prado 150 series stock standard out of the box

Kerb weight (kg) ================= 2320 (Kg)

Gross vehicle weight rating (kg) = 2990 (Kg)

Gross combination mass (kg) ====== 5360 (Kg)

"Gross vehicle weight rating" of 2990 (Kg) minus "Kerb weight" of 2320 (Kg) equals 670 (Kg) for an introduction of extra weight that can be added to the vehicle. EG: Passengers/ Cargo and accessories.

"Gross combination mass" You now know that your tow bar is rated at 2500 (Kg) braked.... So if you was to add total "Gross combination mass" you know that you can not exceed total 5360 (Kg) with a trailer added. (If vehicle is lighter then more weight can be added to the trailer but not exceed 2500 Kg).

If your vehicle weight's in at 2990 (Kg) then your trailer can not exceed 2370 (Kg) (Braked) knowing that your "Gross combination mass" is 5360 (Kg).

Also take note on the model of your vehicle as this determines total pay-loads that can be added. EG: more accessories added to the vehicle the less cargo weight can be added.

Also be aware that if you add extra weight to the front end of your vehicle it will reduce the extra distributed total pay load that can be added to your vehicle as your front axle Maximum pay load will be reduced due to the extra weight added to the front axle.

One of the reasons for a max GVM is to reduce stress on the chassis and also to ensure that the vehicle is capable of stopping saftly with its designed braking system!

The reason for a maximum front axle pay load is that all total energy pay-load is transferred to the front axle when under braking and can cause access twisting of the front chassis rails hence maximum front axle pay-load.

Have you checked your vehicle pay loads?
http://www.toyota.com.au/prado/range..._RangeandSpecs

Hope this helps some with understanding vehicle pay-load limits.

Cheers

[SWR]

Gday Peterpilot

As you know you only have 170kg for bar, second battery, winch & winch cable....... You also have to add on top of that the distributed weight of your passengers/ food Cargo etc/ Back draws, Fridge, Roof rack or tent with its contents and toe-ball weight on top of that which gives you total GVM!! (Gross Vehicle Mass).

If you add it all up you are left with a heavily stressed chassis and the 150 series has a much less total pay-load due to the much heavier safety cell. (Body).

Cheers

[Peterpilot]

Gday Peterpilot

Here is the link to download the spec sheet below.

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=2006 prado grande vehicle specs %26 features - tech specs&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CGEQFjAA&url=http %3A%2F%2Fwww.pressroom.com.au%2Fnewpressroom%2Ftoy ota%2Fpresskits%2F06prado%2F15.xls&ei=Ff4FUMrnJoW5 iAf0iISrCA&usg=AFQjCNGrO9gGMCCQD5rPj9Vv0cX6XlWOQQ& cad=rja

Cheers

PS here is another spec sheet

http://www.toyota120.com/GenDocs/2005AusPradoBro.pdf

Thanks Skywalkerrun,

If the 120 front axle limit is just 1290kg and my stock weight was 1120kg; then that only leaves 170kg for bar, second battery, winch & winch cable. There would be thousands of Prados that exceed this limit. What sort of front axle weights are the 150 series guys running at?

[SWR]

Gday Peterpilot

Here is the link to download the spec sheet below.

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rc...XlWOQQ&cad=rja

Cheers

PS here is another spec sheet

http://www.toyota120.com/GenDocs/2005AusPradoBro.pdf

[Peterpilot]

Prado 120 series

Kerb Weight =========== 2010-2190 Kg
Gross Vehicle Mass ==== 2900 Kg
Front axle load (max) = 1290 Kg
Rear axle load (max) = 1800 Kg

############################################

Prado 150 series

Kerb Weight =========== 2210-2435 Kg
Gross Vehicle Mass ==== 2990 Kg
Front axle load (max) = 1450 Kg
Rear axle load (max) = 1800 Kg

Sorry, a bit OT, but where are these load ratings for the 120 published? My 120 was already 1120kg at the front axle when stock:

[Gordon]

Problem with the Discos is you're kind of on your own. If anyone actually uses one the way you or I do they wouldn't tell you they fell to bits cos they're such fanatical zealotes - It's be like Harley riders conceding that the riding position, power, handling is all wrong so they go buy a normal bike. You might get looked after better though as LR try to protect their nonreputation...

If you need the back seats and the doors, the 70 wagon isn't a bad car, but beware the fuel economy (with rack) is never under 14 so with the standard tank 550km range is tops. With the long range tanks comes a saggy rear end and so new rear springs, so watch the dollars go up and the handling go down. And don't get duped into the silly (dangerous and illegal) rear wheel spacers either - the car is short and stumpy and it steers quick; there's nothing wrong with having different front/rear track or Toyota wouldn't build them like that.

If you can do without the rear side doors then your options expand to LWB troopies. These are the current pick of that ilk I reckon, still noisy and primitive but the ride is best and the boot is huge. And they are the true tank that you seem to crave. The GXL with front facing seats is the good one, so if you do need to take passengers they're a little safer than the sideways palaver. I bought a Recaro seat for one of my work utes and it was a very good decision - I'd encourage your troopie mate to get one. If your'e tall it helps by dropping you down 30mm or so. Most of the issue with the stock troopie (and Prados pre150) seat was that they put you up so high you have to crane your neck down to see under the roof. Very tiring and bad for your spine, add corrugations and christ what a disaster.

Another note on the troopies, sell the split rims and get a set of 7" ROH or similar. Then watch your tyres & pressures. The fatter the tyre the flatter it has to be to offer the same level of ride comfort & control in the rough.

Funny thing is I was seriously considering a troopy to replace Prado #2. Got to the dealer, opened the door and went ".....nup".

Be interested to see where you wind up...
G.
PS I hear there's a twin cab 70 ute on the horizon.

[Schniff]

Gordon, my mate did a $25k build up on a v8 troopie at the same time I did jthe Prado and he always complained his back was killing him. I always thought he was about to tip over when following him on the tracks. Love the tough as nails build but hate the leaf rear end. If they would just put a bloody coil rear end on the 76 wagon they might be onto something. Same as Nissan putting a decent engine into the GU. I could go on.

The girlie's old man has a 6 year old babied turbo diesel 100 series Sahara he doesn't use much. You'd love it, it is bog stock and doesn't even have a towbar!
Could make an offer?
There is the 200 series, but that means I have to give Toyota alot of my money. Disco 4, the best all round 4x4 on the market. By a mile. When it works. Beautiful car, but Land Rover....

Decisions.

[Schniff]

Dusty you bit! Haha
Where did this rear bar thing come from? I don't have one.

[Gordon]

ha harr. Dusty: Just had a borrowed car - never installed a rear bar to one of my own - and couldn't get over the pain in the arse it is opening the back door. "For ONE EXTRA WHEEL" kept going through my mind. Anyway not so much the weight (around 70kgs plus the extra wheel brings you to around 110) but the distance rear of the axle, whereas your passengers will sit inside the wheelbase. Pendulum bla bla bla....

Not much else to fire, a bigger target please, I am probably Schniff's dad's age so you'll understand my eyesight is failing me.

Schniff, you're a good sport... what's next?? Gotta tell you I only need to look at a 70 series and my back starts groaning. If you get one of those distemperate donkies it's best get a long wheelbase (2 tanks stock, better ride and much more stable). Make sure you can cope with the offset pedals - my chiro refers to the symptoms as "asymmetry of the pelvis". Buy some earplugs for touring. Can't buy a new back.

G.

[Dusty74]

Rear bar - gets spare off door/ provides rear protection. Too much weight - bull, car is designed to carry two adults in the back, conservatively 160kgs where the bar would be lucky to be 50kgs.
Bottoming out - what are you guys doing? I have covered some shit roads and haven't managed to do this. Surely if this happens regularly I'd be looking at failed components or operator error.
I'd be gutted if mine was cracked as bad as Schniff's and would expect warranty repair with or without aftermarket equipment, that's a cop out.

Just my opinion though, fire away!

Cheers,
Dusty

[Schniff]

Mate its all good, I'm not bothered by your comments as there will always be people who think you shouldn't mod a car. I didnt think i'd find too many on a 4wd enthusiast forum though LOL. My old man is like that. I'm never going to change your mind.

I've accepted the Prado is borderline not quite up to it and will move on, once it is properly fixed.

[Gordon]

Yeah, I was just about to pull my punches and now it's been read there's not much point But suffice to say Schniff, that at the end of the day I do feel for you on this. I understand you've put a lot of dough into this, not to mention done some serious homework and now been through all manner of heartache. So sorry if it sounds a little aggressive.

Fortunately my first messy autodisassembly was on a 2nd hand car that I was able to sell locally to someone who didn't car that much; but I did lunch 10 grand on it...

And yes SkyWalker I read your posts - and agree with you and others who have taken a similar conservative setup line.

[SWR]

Gday Gordon

LMAO!!!! Does that mean that you read in between the lines on my observations and are confirming what i written??

I personally was aiming more towards the tender-footed approach with the intent of expressing genuine empathy (For which i still do towards Schniff as his situation is not funny) when i put up my observations but you just cut-out the chase and came right out of with it like a bull let loose in a china shop!!! Lol

I shall now run away as i am sure "flaming" and carnage will follow!! Lol

Cheers