Is the 150 showing any signs of cracked inner guards

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

Skywalker, I also agree with you and wooley. I really think some of the stuff that people get worked up about is a case of the "sky is falling".

Interesting pick up on the crumple zone. They would have to use a steel that's optimized for both forming and energy absorption, and not tensile strength. It is definitely a type of fatigue crack.

In any case it's not going to stop you driving but it would fail a road worthy inspection.

I'm really curious as to what loading is causing the fatigue crack because it doesn't look like there's any real load on the panel, provided that front rubber support near the battery is doing its job.

[KarlCaudwell Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close KarlCaudwell]

I have no engineering or mechanical knowledge, so I need to ask this. If the problem is not repaired what is likely to happen and or the worst case scenario...... Does the front of your car fall off, does something collapse. Because I'm thinking even if it is repaired ie replaced with another Toyota inner guard, can't the same thing just happen again. Or is the problem really not that bad.

The next thing I was looking at doing was the dual battery, now I have doubts about sticking a 20kg weight in there and tempting fate. But where else can I put a second battery. (have to leave the rear seats in).

He schniff did you get the PM?
Karl

[wooley Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close wooley]

I have no engineering or mechanical knowledge, so I need to ask this. If the problem is not repaired what is likely to happen and or the worst case scenario...... Does the front of your car fall off, does something collapse. Because I'm thinking even if it is repaired ie replaced with another Toyota inner guard, can't the same thing just happen again. Or is the problem really not that bad.

The next thing I was looking at doing was the dual battery, now I have doubts about sticking a 20kg weight in there and tempting fate. But where else can I put a second battery. (have to leave the rear seats in).

He schniff did you get the PM?
Karl

I don't think a battery is anything to worry about, they come with a second BIG battery in europe anyway.

If it is a guard problem then replacing it wont help. Maybe just weld it up/reinforce it if it happens.

Who's to say it will even happen, they could all just be isolated cases. Like everything else we only hear about a few cases of it happening when there is how many prados on the road.

[Schniff Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schniff]

The cracks result in flex in the arch which puts stress on the radiator support panel and causes it to crack. Once your radiator support goes your radiator, air con condenser and inter cooler are compromised. So if left, this does become a big deal.

While they arent chassis cracks it's not good enough in a $75k Toyota. You fork out the money for the name so you don't have to put up with this sort of thing. I could forgive it if Toyota just fixed the bloody thing, but their attitude of deny deny is just wrong.

I bought this car before I turned 28 and it is my third new car. I would have thought I would be the ideal demographic - treat me well and you get a customer for 40+ years. Like I said I want to upgrade to a 200 series but this sort of thing makes me not want to give Toyota the money purely on principle.

[Schniff Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schniff]

I was so close to buying a new Mitsubishi challenger for less than a 2 yr old prado. I had doubts about the mitsu reliability etc etc. a few people said I was crazy and to go for the Toyota, they're reliable blah blah, there's a reason they cost more blah blah. Anyway my gut said the prado was the most sensible option and I went with it, hope I was right. But really sounds like they are slipping and if they keep it up they are really going to damage their brand.
Anyway that's my winge

It's all a myth. I would argue Mitsubishi have it over Toyota in the 4x4 reliability stakes, especially when it comes to the 4M41 DID engine versus the 1kd D4D. Not sure about the 4D56 motor in the Triton/Challenger. Driveline strength is no contest. Where Mitsu fall down is 'perceived quality' where refinement is not as good and interiors develop rattles far more quickly. If Mitsu fixed these issues it would go a long way to pulling back Toyos dominance. An all new Pajero can't come soon enough.

[Schniff Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schniff]

I don't think a battery is anything to worry about, they come with a second BIG battery in europe anyway.

If it is a guard problem then replacing it wont help. Maybe just weld it up/reinforce it if it happens.

Who's to say it will even happen, they could all just be isolated cases. Like everything else we only hear about a few cases of it happening when there is how many prados on the road.

I had it welded up and it cracked again on the next trip. I'm not intrested in spending $900 to fix it every trip and spend the entire trip worrying about it cracking again. There is a limit to reinforcement as it is part of the crumple zone.

Karl, I did get your PM. Thanks alot, will contact the other owner and let you know how I go.

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

Schniff, not sure if you read my earlier post but there is no point welding it up if you don't know why it is cracking. Welding that material can introduce more stress and increase the chance of further problems.

I'd be interested in the answer to the questions, particularly the condition and installation of the rubber mount.

Like I said earlier unless you've made some other mods that caused the cracks then Toyota will be obliged to repair the damage.

[Schniff Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schniff]

Schniff, not sure if you read my earlier post but there is no point welding it up if you don't know why it is cracking. Welding that material can introduce more stress and increase the chance of further problems.

I'd be interested in the answer to the questions, particularly the condition and installation of the rubber mount.

Like I said earlier unless you've made some other mods that caused the cracks then Toyota will be obliged to repair the damage.

There's the kicker. The Toyota Aust rep put my rig on a weigh bridge and was 10kg over front axle limit. Now I've used that bridge before when getting garden on the same day in same config and got different results. I wonder what the tolerances are? Weight of the Toyota reps?

This should not have no effect on the guard as it is not bearing any of that weight, but it does make my position harder to argue. I could also say that if I change back to my stock rims and tyres I am under, hence the extra weight is unsprung and would not affect the guard.
Still, I made a mistake in not swapping them back before handing over the car. If I had a wheel bearing or Cv failure Toyota would not have to cover it which would be fair enough.

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

Hey Schniff, if this is an issue across all 150s I'd expect to find a few more reports online. So far I have only been able to find pics on yours. Could it be your driving style? What sort of tyre pressures and speed are you doing?

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

There's the kicker. The Toyota Aust rep put my rig on a weigh bridge and was 10kg over front axle limit. Now I've used that bridge before when getting garden on the same day in same config and got different results. I wonder what the tolerances are? Weight of the Toyota reps?

This should not have no effect on the guard as it is not bearing any of that weight, but it does make my position harder to argue. I could also say that if I change back to my stock rims and tyres I am under, hence the extra weight is unsprung and would not affect the guard.
Still, I made a mistake in not swapping them back before handing over the car. If I had a wheel bearing or Cv failure Toyota would not have to cover it which would be fair enough.

That's a bummer, I wonder what made them put it over the weigh bridge? You don't seem to have more gear than some others. 10kg over may give Toyota an out but it should still be well inside design safety factors. Looking at the crumple zone it does seem that strength has been traded for the need to meet front impact safety requirements.

Does anyone know what the standard and maximum front axle loads are?

Just reread your post. I would assume that depending on the specification they either do the weigh empty or fully loaded otherwise it's not valid.

By the way, do you have a roof rack?

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How does Joe Blow know what the axle limits are supposed to be?

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

Looked up axle limits in the owners manual (pg288):

Front: 1450kg
Rear: 1800kg
GVM: 2900kg

Not sure what the unloaded weights are.

Schniff, 10kg over is a joke. That would probably be the limit of weigh bridge tolerance and could shift based on load in car, fuel in tank and probably a bunch of other factors. I'd be pushing back on them.

All that said you are near the vehicle limits and if you do extensive hard driving over rough terrain then you may well be getting very close to or even past the vehicle design safety limits.

[Schniff Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schniff]

Hey Schniff, if this is an issue across all 150s I'd expect to find a few more reports online. So far I have only been able to find pics on yours. Could it be your driving style? What sort of tyre pressures and speed are you doing?

You raise a fair point. Remember that mine is a Nov 09 build so would have been one of the first off the line. It is a funny coincidence that Karl's mate who I am about to contact has a Prado from the exact same build month. The problem occurred at identical kms. It could mean a latent problem that only rears its ugly head after a couple of years (now) or it could mean just a few bodies early on the production cycle. I sincerely hope it is the later for everyone else's sake. The repairer claimed that he had fixed a few 150s that had done mining duty. In his opinion the Prado is 'just not up to it'.

A fair question about driving style. I don't believe I do too much out of the ordinary. My mate in his Troopy leaves me way behind in all conditions except low range crawling where his leaves throw him around a bit.
I am quite particular on pressures and run a tyre dog in the cabin.
Unladen around town on Grantreks I run mid 30s.
Loaded on highway on Coopers I run 37-40 front and 39-42 rear.
On dirt I air down the coopers to low 30s and find 80 km hr a good speed for staying on top corrugations.
If the road is uneven I drive slower that that. If corrugations are particularly bad I'll drop pressures further although the car handles like crap which needs to be taken into account.
I don't speed through washouts.

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

On dirt I air down the coopers to low 30s and find 80 km hr a good speed for staying on top corrugations.

Hopefully you're onto something with the early builds. 80 km/h is a fair enough speed but personally low 30s is too high for me, I run around mid 20s. Especially with your LT Coopers with hard side walls I'd be going lower pressure. I'd discount the mine vehicles as those guys break anything and they do unnatural things with their vehicles.

[Schniff Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schniff]

That's a bummer, I wonder what made them put it over the weigh bridge? You don't seem to have more gear than some others. 10kg over may give Toyota an out but it should still be well inside design safety factors. Looking at the crumple zone it does seem that strength has been traded for the need to meet front impact safety requirements.

Does anyone know what the standard and maximum front axle loads are?

Just reread your post. I would assume that depending on the specification they either do the weigh empty or fully loaded otherwise it's not valid.

By the way, do you have a roof rack?

Yeah it's frustrating, because I took measures to limit weight where possible.

I have a winch with rope which saves 20kg. I run a wet cell battery instead of an AGM which is 10kg lighter. I don't use a winch control box, but an Albright solenoid under the bonnet which is far smaller and lighter. My roof rack is an aluminium windcheetah, weight 25kg. UHF antenna is roof mounted at the rear. Spotlights are plastic Abr sidewinder jobbies.

Under bonnet is a big red compressor, prevent 200, fuel pre-filter. Brown Davis bash plate would add a bit, but overall these are all typical touring mods.

Bear in mind I have an auto VX which is a bit heavier than Gxl. People with manual GXLs can relax. Auto adds weight too.