The 150 series Dual Battery Guide

[rob_macca67 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close rob_macca67]

Just curious here.... How people fit the same size dual battery as the main battery (N70 size which I believe is around 300mm in length) - I should also add this is in relation to diesel versions as I'm unfamiliar with the petrol versions.... And of those people who have fitted the same physical size battery, how many of you would regularly travel across corrugated dirt roads?
Just trying to gain some info in reference to the cracking inner guard issues and whether the battery's "physical size" has any bearing on the problem.....

rob

[Sydneydude Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sydneydude]

Glad it worked out mate.

Thanks for the ARB tray tip, that was exactly what I wanted, i.e. something that makes life easier.

[Vk3bq Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Vk3bq]

Autobarn clayton Victoria has optima d34's for $299.

Also in their catalogue. Sale ends September 23. so all stores.

[Sydneydude Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sydneydude]

i paid 254 on Ebay for the D34. 2 days from order to delivery.

[Vk3bq Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Vk3bq]

installed my bits last night

sbi12
arb tray
d34 battery
home made cables. 3AWG (i purchased a crimp tool given i expect to make up other cables for the CT etc into the future)

earthed to the chassis and also back to the main battery, as no one can decide which is better. i did both..

next step is to get this spare power to the back of the car, anyone have a path to run the cable under the car to the back for a anderson plug/trailer connection? cable tie to chassis rail? ive seen how to get power to inside back via passanger side channel. do people prefer this then pop it outside down the back? 6awg will run to the back, had some recovered copper in the shed.




Untitled by asphotos, on Flickr


Untitled by asphotos, on Flickr


Untitled by asphotos, on Flickr


Untitled by asphotos, on Flickr

[shamozzle Find all posts View Profile Close shamozzle]

Run the feed down the rhs of the vehicle, through the sills and up the rear wheel arch. The rear quarter panel comes off and the cable can be ran all the way along and beside the factory inverter. You can check my build thread for the rear loom


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[flyology Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close flyology]

Not sure if something similar has been posted in here, but think that the charts on this site would assist greatly in the selection of what cable to use for a dual battery setup, and other accessories.

http://www.windsun.com/Hardware/Wire_Table.htm#Cross reference

[Tauras Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tauras]

Other than the main battery negative, where can I earth my aux battery in the engine bay?

Also how do you secure the fuses/circuit breakers within the engine bay?

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

Other than the main battery negative,where cahn I earth my aux battery in the engine bay?

Also how do you secure the fuses/circuit breakers within the engine bay?

Hi Taurus, if you look at my install photos on the first page of this thread you'll see where I earthed the batter. Fuses are as per ABR sidewinder kit above main battery, looks very neat.

The engine is where the alternator and main battery is earthed so it is actually the best earth point, although no doubt someone will try to argue the point.

[fourbyfour Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close fourbyfour]

Hi guys would someone be able to tell me the length and gauge size cables required for the as I am a getting a workmate of mine to make them up for me. I have the redarc SBI12 and ARB battery tray.

Thanks

[LeighW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LeighW]

Or you could install a low cost booster diode and bring your new style low output alternator
up to the approximate output voltage of the older types.

Also note all DCDC chargers bulk charge an AGM at around 14.4V this is virtually the same
as an older style alternator or a boosted one.

A 20A DCDC will bulk charge slower than an Alternator , but will boost charge quicker.
If your trying to recharge heavily discharged large capacity batteries or multiple batteries the
alternator will be much quicker for the bulk charge stage, the boost stage is only used for
around the last 5% capacity of the batteries charging in most chargers, ie in a 100AH battery
the last 5AH.

As usually the old "an alternator will never fully charge your batteries" raises its head again,
as long as the alternator can output a higher voltage than the open circuit resetting voltage
of the fully charged battery it can fully charge it, ie even when considering a low output alternator,
show me any convectional lead acid type battery that has a resting fully charged terminal voltage of 13.5V? This is basic chemistry.

The only time the alternator won't fully charge the battery is if you simply don't drive for
long enough and the same will apply to a DCDC charger in which case topping up with
solar or 240V is recommended.

Cheers
Leigh

[drivesafe Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close drivesafe]

Hi ########## and I can only guess where you get your misleading info from.

For a starter, Toyota have raised the minimum operating voltage so your batteries, note plural, all your batteries will charge faster than the old set ups did.

Next, the thinner the cable, the lower the INPUT voltage to an inverter, the more inefficient a DC/DC device becomes, the more current the alternator has to produce, so the more fuel you need to burn to recharge your batteries.

So some REALLY bad advice there mate.

Whether you are charging direct off the alternator or via a DC/DC device, you should still be using 6B&S twin cable, not the thinner cable claimed to be able to be used with a DC/DC device.

Another point, to condition a battery, the battery must remain in a charging state for at least 8 to 10 hours after a charger goes from bulk to float mode.

So ##########, how many continuos hours do you drive, because anything less than 5 hours and you haven’t even started to condition your AUXILIARY battery let alone done anything for your cranking battery.

Now if someone is after the most efficient and fastest charging dual battery set up you can install, then one of LeighW’s alternator booster fuses combined with one of my isolators will beat any DC/DC set up.

Not only will this set up allow for faster recharging but you will have more usable capacity from the same amount of batteries and your CRANKING battery will always be in a higher state of charge and will be kept in a FAR better condition.

One last point, not only is PARALLELING batteries NOT old technology, but by doing just that, by keeping the cranking battery and the auxiliary batteries constantly parallel connected, is the reason my isolators keep cranking batteries in a better state of charge, resulting in up to doubling of the life span for your cranking battery while helping to extend the life span of your auxiliary battery at the same time.

And all this is done while using less fuel than you need to run a DC/DC device.

NOTE, these are HONEST facts, not the grossly misleading advertising hype used to sell DC/DC devices.

[LeighW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LeighW]

I don't think I need to say much as Tim has covered it very well.

The only thing I will address is the cable size, yes you can get away with lighter
cable to a point for a 20A charger, why because it becomes a bottle neck and slows
charging.

Again you can use lighter cable for the charger as it will boost the lower input voltage
it has to run, down side as Tim pointed out is it will draw a lot more current for same
amps out, fuel cost money!

As for the 75% max charge, that is either ignorance regarding battery chemistry
on your half or deliberate misleading info. Show me any battery manufactures website
where it states you can't fully charge a battery off an alternator? The only expection
in the auto area would be a full calcium type and even they have surprised the manufactures
by coping very well even in vehicles with charging systems not specifically designed for them.

[drivesafe Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close drivesafe]

First off, I have just done a brand new D4D ( two weeks ago ) and the drive down to me was just under 1 hour so the voltage had settled to it’s normal operating level, which was 13.8v. As posted, Toyota have raised their normal operating voltage level, and not just in their D4Ds but in the LC200, so they have probably raised it in all their new vehicles.

I think you need to catch up with the latest technology mate.

Next and can you please explain how YOUR Ctek charges the cranking battery when no other Ctek does that.

How the Ctek 250 dual works, is that it will charge your starting battery to 13.8 volts and then the auxiliary battery to 14.4 volts, then keep that charge topped up.

You are giving lecturers about a device when you don’t even know how that device works.

You also have no understanding of battery chemistry because charging source is irrelevant, it is how long your keep a voltage applied to a battery that allows the battery to be conditioned.

DC/DC device can not condition a battery for the very same reason an alternator can not. Because people don’t drive their vehicles long enough.

Whereas, when your vehicle is parked up in your garage, if you use a battery charger, it will condition a battery because you can keep the battery on a charge source for more than 10 hours.

Again, for on road use, your set up can not compete with how a Toyota, fitted with one of LeighW’s fuses and one of my isolators work.

[LeighW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LeighW]

Are they getting cheaper, seems strange if your selling a premium product that you would lower the price, maybe sales aren't all that good?

Just because its new technology doesn't make it better, with large battery capacity or multi battery installations a 20A charger is going to considerable lengthen recharge times. Yes you could go for 40A chargers and one for each battery but there goes your $200 special.

Charging a battery and running a fridge is not a good idea with the 250, yes it will work but what's it doing to the battery, as far as I can ascertain from Ctek's documents (don't know for sure as Ctek's hides behind their "Proprietor information" statement) the 250 will go into boost charge for a preset time every time the bulk float voltage reaches a certain point, that means each time the fridge cycles off and on the Ctek will go back into its pre-timed guesstimate to and boost charge the battery.

And it is a guesstimate as the charger has no idea of the actual battery capacity connected to it, could be 80Ah or could 200Ah, assuming they allowed for large capacity batteries, not much point in boost charging if they didn't then 120AH batteries for instance are already being overcharged on the first charge cycle, if we now add in continual boost charging cycle caused by the fridge cycling off and on then that can't be good for the battery. What was Ctek comment from memory, yes you can charge the battery and run a fridge at the same time but its not advised, their comment and the above explains why.

Yes you could get round it by wiring the fridge directly of the alternator when the alternators charging as other DCDC charger manufactures have suggested in the past but there goes your simply cheap wiring solution.

Just because its new tech doesn't make it better, it is purely a company seeing a sales opportunity and pushing their product to as wide an audience as possible wether it be needed or not. Yes DCDC have a place but for the majority for the majority of in car installs they will give poorer performance, not improve it.

As for Drivesafe statement, about Toyota raising the voltage levles, drivesafe is correct, I have also been informed by some customers that some of the latest models not only Toyota included have had recent changes to there charging systems to restore charging voltages to previous levels, but then as I sell a hell of a lot more booster diodes than you sell chargers you probably won't find out about it for quite some time

By the way, most people I know, don't use traction control, down hill assist etc, in fact a lot disable them, again just because its new doesn't make it better.


LeighW