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Booster Diode and Solenoid to Redarc BCDC

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  • Booster Diode and Solenoid to Redarc BCDC

    Here is a bit of video of my Redarc BCDC install. I have been using a home made booster diode and solenoid for a number of years. Not designed to be a How To video as I didn't bother explaining every step. But might give someone a few ideas with installation of location.

    I will be doing various tests and will post any results. I am interested in the location as far as heat goes. I will be testing the outputVs heat over the next few weeks. I may change the location to behind the grill if required. I did put it here to start with just due to the extra work. But the easiest place is rarely the best.


  • #2
    Why did you change from Booster diode to BCDC?
    [B]Steve[/B]

    2010 Silver GXL Prado 150, D4D Auto, with a few non standard bits

    Comment


    • #3
      I explained it in the video as well.

      1) I feel I had the correct voltage for the battery, with the diode, It would change at or over 14 volts. But I think because I often discharged the battery quite a bit, the simple method of charging that the alternator produces wasn't bringing the battery up to charge in a way that promoted longevity. So I would only get around 2 years out of the second battery.

      Using the Redarc, and the more complex methods of checking and changing the voltage and current when required will make the battery last longer.

      2) Just so I could see how they perform compared to the solenoid. Lots of people argue this topic. The only way to really know is to have tested both systems in similar conditions.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Justinvv View Post

        2) Just so I could see how they perform compared to the solenoid. Lots of people argue this topic. The only way to really know is to have tested both systems in similar conditions.
        This is the interesting bit - I've done what you are doing but the other way round. - Moved from a BCDC1220 to an isolator set-up. I even occasionally 'recommissioned' the BCDC to see if I was missing out on something.

        I found that I wasn't!

        The BCDC was charging much slower in the bulk phase and arguably around the same rate for the rest. (optima yellow top for the AUX)

        Also, the BCDC wont bring your battery to a higher state of charge than full and my isolator (SCI80) always brings my AUX to full also.

        I'd be interested in your summer findings also, when the BCDC will derate its output.
        Cheers
        Micheal.

        2008 GXL D4D Auto. GOING... GOING... GONE
        2015 GXL 1GD Auto. And it begins again...

        Comment


        • #5
          Sounds more like a case of to often discharging the battery to low a value or using a battery that can't cope with high charge
          rates than a charging issue. A more suitable battery rather than a new charger may have been more appropriate.

          People seem to think these chargers have wonderful algorithms that charge the battery better, they don't. Most have three basic
          settings, first stage is a current limiting mode to protect the charger from burning itself out. Second stage is a constant voltage
          stage, same as used by the alternator, this kicks in when the chargers output current drops below a point where if it was to continue
          at maximum output current the charge voltage of the charge would exceed the maximum allowed voltage ie 14.4V. last stage is a
          float stage which could be useful if you drive your car continually for 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
          HKB Electronics, manufacturer of the Alternator Voltage Booster, Silver 2008 D4D,Lifted,Underbody protection, Alternator Voltage Booster, Tiger Z winch, Lightforce DL, Air Horns, Tanami Drawers, Drop down fridge slide, Outback cargo barriers, Rotronics dual Battery system, Polaris GPS, HF/UHF/VHF, Radio speaker combiner, Long ranger water tank, Diff breathers, Inverter, Snorkel and others

          Comment


          • #6
            I had no issue with my solenoid either. I know exactly how a BCDC works, and the way they handle charging is better. Didn't say it was sophisticated, but its better than an alternator. And you can use different chemistries. And I just wanted to try one. Gave me something to do on Saturday morning..

            And you are right, I do give my battery a bit of a hard time, so that wouldn't help. I cant put a bigger one under the bonnet, it would have to be somewhere else, which I may do one day.

            And I will check the BCDC and if it gets to the point of derating due to heat, I will shift its location. They dont derate until getting fairly hot.

            Time will tell if its better or not.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Justin and as a DC/DC device takes far long to recharge a battery than an alternator does, how do you think this is good for a battery, that you say you give a hard time.

              As far as being able to charge batteries of different chemistry goes, this is only an advantage if you drive long enough to get the battery to it’s final stage of a charge cycle and with say a 100Ah battery, in a low state of charge at the start of the drive, you would need to drive for around 10 hours to complete a full charging cycle.

              NOTE the same thing applies when charging using an alternator except a battery would be fully charged in less during time.

              So while nether type of charging is likely to recharge a low battery to a true fully charged state because most people never drive long enough to allow any form of charging to fully charge batteries, but charging from an alternator will leave a battery in a much higher state of charge in the short drive times we do.

              This means alaternator charging is going to be better for batteries, both for the amount of capacity you will have each time you use the battery and for the long term longevity of the battery.

              Comment


              • #8
                We will see, When touring and camping I am always on the move so charging the battery time wise isnt an issue. Also the BCDC does charge at a higher voltage than the alternator with the diode the profile I am using around 14.5V. The alternator will push around 60 amps into a partially depleted battery, I have tried and measured this, but it backs off quite quickly and settles on around 50 amps, at a lower voltage, around 13.9v once at heat with a diode.

                As for the longevity, this is just a theory. I will find out if in one year the battery starts to drop capacity like in the past. Thats the great thing about actually doing these things, you find out first hand.

                As I said. I have not had any issue using the solenoid charging, and I have argued this point a lot with people who said it didnt work as well as a BCDC. But now I have both systems. I can choose.

                I will also add solar to the roof or bonnet as the Redarc can also regulate this. I have foldable panels also to add if required.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Looking forward to the feedback, especially with your comments around your battery settling down to pulling 50 amps! - the 25am DCDC will very almost double the recharge time!

                  The BCDC wont charge at a higher rate than the alternator during the bulk phase. My BCDC1220 starts VERY low (around 13.4v I recall) and with a reasonably discharged battery, takes quite some time to get up to 14v, let alone 14.5v.

                  Cheers
                  Micheal.

                  2008 GXL D4D Auto. GOING... GOING... GONE
                  2015 GXL 1GD Auto. And it begins again...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Its not that simple. If a battery is discharged, the battery initially will take a high current, as the voltage rises and gets to something like 14.5 volts, the battery will then "absorb" what it can, and this will be a lot lower than the Alternator max output. Probably lower than 25 amps (I will check) Over time the amount of current the battery is absorbing reduces to near zero. Then it moves into the float stage.

                    The extra time a 25 Amp charger and an alternator take, isnt double, or anything like double. Probably just a bit quicker in the bulk stage.

                    I will play around a bit more on the weekend.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi again Justin and yes it can be slightly quicker to recharge some batteries using an alternator, but it can also be as much as 4 times quicker to recharge other batteries, like Optima Yellowtops.

                      And this is exactly what occurs in the latest Toyota’s.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have put this up before but here it is again for the next generation

                        "https://www.hkbelect.com//uploads/files/Prado current graph only.doc"

                        Copy and paste the content inside the quotes to your browser, for some reason the BBS does like the file name


                        LeighW
                        Avid PP Poster!
                        Last edited by LeighW; 25-05-2018, 10:19 AM.
                        HKB Electronics, manufacturer of the Alternator Voltage Booster, Silver 2008 D4D,Lifted,Underbody protection, Alternator Voltage Booster, Tiger Z winch, Lightforce DL, Air Horns, Tanami Drawers, Drop down fridge slide, Outback cargo barriers, Rotronics dual Battery system, Polaris GPS, HF/UHF/VHF, Radio speaker combiner, Long ranger water tank, Diff breathers, Inverter, Snorkel and others

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Great graph. I was going to do something similar. Exactly what I expected. I would expect in a lot of cases the DCDC would top the battery off better as it will normally hold a higher voltage??

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            A DCDC charger will revert to constant voltage charging at around 85% SOC, ie it has reached its maximum charge voltage.
                            A higher end voltage will allow for a higher charge rate at that time but as the battery is approaching full charge it isn't going
                            to accept much more current.

                            When the battery is "flat" a small increase in voltage will result in a large inrush current, in the above example the charge voltage
                            at after 5 minutes was about 13V and the charge current was initial charge was 45A, less than 1V rise in terminal voltage.

                            At the 85% mark the terminal voltage is around 14V and we have around 8A flowing and rapidly falling, raising the voltage to
                            14.4V would increase the current to maybe 12A but it is rapidly going to drop below that figure again.

                            The DCDC will be quicker from the time its voltage is higher than the alternator to bring the battery up to full but overall there
                            won't be that much difference. The advantage of the alternator is it puts the bulk charge back in much quicker which is advantageous
                            if you don't want to do long drive times each day.

                            Obviously a 50A DCDC would be quicker than the alternator in the above case but is going to cost a lot more than a simple VSR
                            setup and will only be quicker for one battery and keep in mind it will put a higher load on the alternator for the majority of the time.
                            HKB Electronics, manufacturer of the Alternator Voltage Booster, Silver 2008 D4D,Lifted,Underbody protection, Alternator Voltage Booster, Tiger Z winch, Lightforce DL, Air Horns, Tanami Drawers, Drop down fridge slide, Outback cargo barriers, Rotronics dual Battery system, Polaris GPS, HF/UHF/VHF, Radio speaker combiner, Long ranger water tank, Diff breathers, Inverter, Snorkel and others

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by LeighW View Post
                              The DCDC will be quicker from the time its voltage is higher than the alternator to bring the battery up to full
                              Exactly right, and something for 2.8L owners to keep in mind (especially those of us that only see 13.5V across the cranker). Unless my aux battery is severely depleted, the DCDC voltage exceeds the alternator voltage within less than a minute of starting. The alternator's big-amp advantage is over almost immediately. This picture is the 25A DCDC equivalent of yours on a 2.8L engine, but with voltages included. The cranker is fully charged at 12.6V (blue trace), the aux battery is depleted down to 12.1V (pink trace). The engine is started about 20 seconds before 8:07 and by about 20 seconds after 8:07 the DCDC voltage exceeds the alternator voltage, and as a result is able to pump its nominal 25A in (measured at 24A). It would be great to see a corresponding voltage plot of your camping battery in your plot, so people can compare it with whatever voltage they see across their cranker. And even better if you could do it all again with the booster diode removed.

                              Last edited by dBC; 26-05-2018, 08:32 AM. Reason: "camping" -> "aux" to avoid confusion about battery location, it's under-bonnet.

                              Comment

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