Injector oil seals

[outback7 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close outback7]

Mate, I just love the 150 models. The 80 series is getting old now. So when you work on them, especially electrical plugs and the like, it just falls apart in your hands. They are heavy on fuel too. The rebuild thing, been there and done that.
There is nothing like the 150 Prado on the market. You do have to know a bit about them really, to take them into remote areas. Well, it pays to know a bit about the vehicle you are taking into these areas. It's always a good idea to have a base knowledge on the vehicle that you are driving. So if something happens, you may get yourself out of trouble.
Besides, once you drive one, there is no going back.
The Roo.

Understand........thanks for your great advice and help not only to me, but the countless others that you have helped on this forum.

[rob_macca67 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close rob_macca67]

Hey Roo.... A little off topic here but u mentioned the 80's getting too old, etc. What's your thoughts in the 100's TD with IFS?? Any known engine issues with them? I had heard people having problems with the heads after they have had the tappets adjusted. From what I've heard/read its more to do with mechanics not following correct procedures when adjusting the tappets and over time the collets holding the valves in place come loose, resulting in the valves dropping into the piston chamber. A mate bought the last of the Multipoint TD 80's and when he checked his head out that's what he found. The collets had started working themselves loose and u could see the damage from where the rocker arm had been hitting on them and not the top of the valve (forgive if I've used the wrong terminology)

RobM

Mate, I just love the 150 models. The 80 series is getting old now. So when you work on them, especially electrical plugs and the like, it just falls apart in your hands. They are heavy on fuel too. The rebuild thing, been there and done that.
There is nothing like the 150 Prado on the market. You do have to know a bit about them really, to take them into remote areas. Well, it pays to know a bit about the vehicle you are taking into these areas. It's always a good idea to have a base knowledge on the vehicle that you are driving. So if something happens, you may get yourself out of trouble.
Besides, once you drive one, there is no going back.
The Roo.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

I know this is a long and tedious post but bear with me there are words that need to be said.

Like Roo and probably many others on here I have had the pleasure of owning a 90, a 120 and for about 6 weeks a 150. When I had the 90 I loved its simplicity and capability for what was a big change for me. It was the first 4wd that was a proper 4wd that still drove well on road. It wasn't a truck and it wasn't noisy and uncomfortable. And it was very capable. Sure a diff lock and suspension and a few other bits were added to the stock Toyota product but it was everything we wanted from a 4wd. There were reports of cracked heads and a few other things that I have forgotten about and I wasn't worried because it was a Toyota. I didn't have extended warranty and never considered it. I sold the 90 with over 160,000km on the clock in 6 and a bit years. I did the usual market check and ended up with a D4D auto 120. The 120 had been around for some years and the D4D had been on the road for 18 months. No issues. Having run my 90 side by side with early 120s I knew that I had to give the 120 a lift and I made sure that I went with the option packs to pick up the safety and off road suite of electronics. And it was good. I was ready to lock the rear and maybe front diffs but that wasn't necessary. The damn thing went places the 90 could and easier. I put that down to more Nm and the automatic gearbox, but I don't want to start a debate on any of that.

I was very happy with my 120. Even when there was talk of injector and engine failures. I wasn't sticking my head in the sand but rather being careful and at the time I was aware of only one injector problem personally and I put that down to dodgy fuel. I kept reading the posts here and was becoming increasingly concerned. I had a good service manager where I had the 120 serviced and bent his ears long and hard about the issues that were cropping up on the internet. Not just here but in Europe as well where the D4D has been around for a lot longer. I also know of someone in the UK who had issues but again I put that down to fuel/lack of servicing. So I had my fuel filters changed more often than Toyota suggest. Every service one or other of the tank / engine bay filters was changed. And checked. You know, pull it apart and look.

At 80,000km I had the injector feedback values checked and was told they are all ok. The same service manager walked me around a few 120s and new 150s and we listened to engines. Mine was quieter than a few 150s, noisier than a few and the same with the 120s. The quietest engine was a 120 with 60,000km and the loudest a pre-delivery 150! All the same more info was being posted here and I became aware of two other D4Ds with problems and at least one of those was being cared for meticulously. Based on the price of a new engine I bought the Toyota Extracare warranty. A first for me. I also used ToyoDIY to work out which injectors I had and found that my 120 was fitted with an interim injector that superseded the original injectors but was still not the DLC injector that Denso finally manufactured.

At the 110,000km service I was notified that the water pump was weeping and this was changed as part of the extended warranty. Pretty common and not a small job so half the extended warranty was paid for.

At the 120,000km service I again asked for the injector values to be checked when the car was in for its cold valve clearance check. It wasn’t done as my friendly service manager had moved on and I was told that my engine is fine, has no symptoms and isn’t noisy when cold. OK. About this time there was mounting evidence that the injector seals from original may be a problem.

Just before the 130,000km service wife and I talked about what to do because the 120 was in its 6th year. She was happy as was I so we decided to keep the car for another year or two. For peace of mind I asked for the injector values to be checked because we were keeping the car and the extended warranty had less than a year to run. I stress again NO SYMPTOMS whatsoever. I did the park nose down, nose up, checked for smoke etc etc. Anyway we picked the car up after the service and lo two injectors out of specification. This didn’t change my view about keeping the car.

Then started a series of events that I was not pleased about. I arranged to book the car in for new injectors (4) and seals and everything else and please check the oil pick up at the same time and the car has extended warranty. This was followed up by a phone call from the service department telling me quite brusquely that extended warranty will only replace the two faulty injectors and only if the fuel system is clean. I was pretty confident that fuel was ok having only ever used one brand of fuel (fuel card) and my filter change regime. But I had a further phone call requiring the car a day earlier for additional checks and we will be dropping the fuel tanks to clean them, flushing the fuel lines and generally inspecting everything. And this is NOT covered by extended warranty. I made it clear that if during the inspection anything was found to void warranty then the work was to stop and they were to contact me. I would make a decision then and there on the course of action. Irrespective of the outcome I wanted a letter from Toyota detailing why extended warranty was denied so I could review my options.

By now I was pissed off. I wanted to fix and flick the car and replace it with anything else. I could cope with having to repair the injectors but the half arsed idea that two 6 year old injectors of a different type should stay with two new injectors was just plain dumb. So we went looking for alternatives while this work was being organised by the dealer.

Some days later the car was duly dropped off for investigation and I was told yet another story. If the fuel filter under the bonnet was clean then all four injectors, pipes, seals, etc would be changed under warranty with no cost to me. If not the cost would be in the order of $2500. As this was about 10 days after the 130,000km service where the fuel filter was changed at my request I burst out laughing. All fixed and fixed properly at no cost to me.

During this period I enlisted the assistance of the Roo for advice and information and he gave it freely and openly. I also read posts where people were accusing others of scare mongering and running down the Toyota brand.

Well it is like this. If you don’t have the problem you cannot possibly understand the impact that will have on others and realistically your opinion is just that and doesn’t matter to anyone caught up in the fight for a serviceable engine. I caught mine early. There was little wrong and the injectors only just out of specification. So no engine damage, no blowby problem, no huge bill at the end after having the car off the road for weeks. And luckily no being stranded on the side of the road many km from home towing a camper while your world crumbles around you.

The funny side of this is that by this time we had test driven a few different 4wds and my wife was still most comfortable in the Prado. As the 120 was as good as new I gave her the option of keeping the 120 as we had planned two weeks before or getting a 150. Well the answer is obvious – the new one is quite nice isn’t it?

So there you have it. My car had no symptoms, no smoke, no noise, nothing. But was still on the downward spiral to injector failure. If I am totally honest the engine was no quieter with new injectors cold than it was a week before the injectors were changed and that was measured with a sound level meter and my ears.

All I can say is that while the percentage of people with problems is few the outcome for those few is pretty dire.

My recommendation is to keep your fuel system clean. Whether you choose to add an extra filter or change filters as I did on the 120 make sure you use the best fuel you can. If I was heading bush on an extended trip then the additional filter would be an automatic install. But that is just my opinion.

I also recommend that each time Toyota has the car for its cold valve clearance check get your injector feedback values checked and logged on the service history. This is really really important with any 120 with the original or interim injectors but I am going to do this for the 150 too.

And finally check you oil strainer for build-up and contamination. I have a new car and bought an inspection camera that I will give to the service agent to do just that each and every service.

You might find Roo's posts a bit in your face but think about it, he is an ex Toyota employee and is coming across these issues on a daily basis. God knows how many pms and emails he gets from us PPers as well. I can only thank Roo for being a good guy and giving his opinion without fear or favour.

Anyway that is enough now above all else go out and enjoy your Prado. Having recently looked over the opposition I can tell you that there isn’t anything else that is even close to the value for money. I have just about got my new one to stage one of the build and I expect to keep it for 6 years. And yes I bought the extended warranty when I bought the car.

Michael

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

So far no more than a couple of instances out Australias 300,000 odd d4d's, was this thread a beatup on D4D motors like you get on other forums about Ranger's breaking in half and clutches in colarado's. It seems that this has gone into oblivion since nothing has come of it so I dont think I will worry about it for my new D4D. I have been to Roma for the last two weeks and can guarantee that every 3rd vehicle parked or travelling around town is a D4D Prado and all seem to be travelling a lot of km's according to owners. Mostly are in the range of 2011 and 2012 with 60 - 90,000k's and a hell of a lot of Oil and Gas company vehicles, included in this are the D4D Hilux's. Avis still are doing a booming trade with Prado diesel's to these companies and I would doubt if there had been any problems that they would be including them in their fleets of hundreds out here. Seems to have been a few months of speculation back in May on what should have been and what should happen.

I for one agree with your analysis. Yes there are issues, every vehicle has issues, a mate of mine was actually on a trip where a 2 week old Ranger broke the chassis, so it happens.

I think a lot of this comes down to typical forum exageration, take a look at the VERY long injector thread issue, I actuallly read through the entire thread a while back to get a feel for how many were having issues, the numbers were surprisingly low for a thread with something like 1500+ posts, most of the complaints were from the early D4D's and most Toyota came to the party with warranty, so whilst disappointing for a lot of those people not really a big deal in the scheme.

I do find it interesting and somewhat ammusing when other mechanics report that they see little or no issues with the D4D, or someone such as yourself makes the observation that the "Roo" gets stuck into them straight away with what seems to me to be almost abusive language. I have said it before and nothing I have read has changed my mind on this, I think Roo is out to get Toyota, he had an engine failure in his 150 series which seems to have sparked the rage.

Now Roo will no doubt have a go at me again for my comments, but such is life.

Oh by the way Roo, I see you have now joined the Hilux forum to try and convince them how bad the D4D is, just adds to my theory that you are on a crusade.

Cheers Andrew

[GTX Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close GTX]

Well written Michael.

[rob_macca67 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close rob_macca67]

Well said Michael..... and well written, good to read about your experiences..... I too have been concerned but as I've always run a 2nd inline Fuel filter pre the OEM one, so I'm hoping that will prevent any fuel related issues. I would like to keep this one LONG TERM, but if not due to some bad experience that may happen, then I'll be going back to an older model 100's TD Auto IFS Cruiser (if I can find a good one) with less technology and hopefully less potential issues.

I just hope & pray that this one will do us for many years to come without experiencing any major problems....

[Octane94 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Octane94]

I for one agree with your analysis. Yes there are issues, every vehicle has issues, a mate of mine was actually on a trip where a 2 week old Ranger broke the chassis, so it happens.

I think a lot of this comes down to typical forum exageration, take a look at the VERY long injector thread issue, I actuallly read through the entire thread a while back to get a feel for how many were having issues, the numbers were surprisingly low for a thread with something like 1500+ posts, most of the complaints were from the early D4D's and most Toyota came to the party with warranty, so whilst disappointing for a lot of those people not really a big deal in the scheme.

I do find it interesting and somewhat ammusing when other mechanics report that they see little or no issues with the D4D, or someone such as yourself makes the observation that the "Roo" gets stuck into them straight away with what seems to me to be almost abusive language. I have said it before and nothing I have read has changed my mind on this, I think Roo is out to get Toyota, he had an engine failure in his 150 series which seems to have sparked the rage.

Now Roo will no doubt have a go at me again for my comments, but such is life.

Oh by the way Roo, I see you have now joined the Hilux forum to try and convince them how bad the D4D is, just adds to my theory that you are on a crusade.

Cheers Andrew

I tend to agree with you,

all cars only last about 10,000kms before they need a checkup.

the amount of d4ds that come into the workshop, without problems. compared to the d4ds that come in with injector rattle.

infact in my 3 years of toyota i have only done 5 injectors on prados.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Is that all your got, Andrew, rather sad really.

No thats not all I got!

Post #181 when you put in your list of all these failures costing big $$ to fix, How many of those are from a 150 series?

This is a 150 series thread, If I owned or was thinking of buying a 150 and read this thread I would read your post and would assume you were talking about the 150 series. I know some of them definately aren't, I suspect most of them aren't and I wouldn't be surprised if none of them were 150's.

Thats just one example of what I talk about when I say forum exageration and why I think you are on a crusade. You constantly tell people you are just there to help, but how is posting misleading information like that helping anyone, its not, its just confusing the situation and muddying the water.

As for Bendman, I am glad he appreciates your posts, he also apreciates what I posted in this thread, I know because he told me so, he just chose to do it offline and not in the public forum.

Cheers Andrew

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Just to clarify - AJ, I gave reputation to your post on the basis of I liked your placing an alternate perspective on the issue. Reading the posts on this thread, I started to become quite alarmed. However, after considering a number of views, I made up my own mind (as most of us do) that the issue was appearing to become bigger than it needs to be but it is still real and could happen to anyone (this is why I considered MJRandom's post highly also). This was after reading your post AJ as I found it to be a calming influence and this is why I gave the appreciation. Sorry for not referencing my gratitude towards you publicly in my earlier post - it was an oversight on my behalf.

No need to be sorry for not giving your appreciation publicly, I only mentioned it as Roo specifically quoted your response. In fact every time I have questioned Roo on his posts in a similar fashion to this current debate I generally recieve lots of PM's or positive feedback points from people expressing similar sentiments to yourself. I also get a number from people thanking me for standing up to someone they see as a bully.

I am also pleased that you felt a calming influence from my post, that is really what I am aiming at here. Its really easy on a forum to whip up a problem and make it seem larger than it might be in reality. I too went through a stage of thinking I made a huge mistake in getting the D4D, but that was based solely on what I read on PP. so I started reading on other sites and more importantly started asking around to local Mechanics and the many locals with Hilux's, not so many Prados around here but every man and and his dog has a D4D Lux. Anyway after my own research and then going back and thouroughly analysing whats on this site I realised that the actual reported numbers weren't anything like I thought they were.

So just to clarify, I am not saying there is no issue, clearly there is, but once you remove the ones that are self inflicted (like a guy on the Hilux forum that fitted Petrol injection to his D4D and wondered why it blew up). Those that fall into the category of regular normal maintenance, changing injectors every 100 thou or so has been standard practice since Adam was a lad, and those that Toyota admit is there fault and fix under warranty how many are left?

Cheers Andrew

[cjsilk Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close cjsilk]

No need to be sorry for not giving your appreciation publicly, I only mentioned it as Roo specifically quoted your response. In fact every time I have questioned Roo on his posts in a similar fashion to this current debate I generally recieve lots of PM's or positive feedback points from people expressing similar sentiments to yourself. I also get a number from people thanking me for standing up to someone they see as a bully.

I am also pleased that you felt a calming influence from my post, that is really what I am aiming at here. Its really easy on a forum to whip up a problem and make it seem larger than it might be in reality. I too went through a stage of thinking I made a huge mistake in getting the D4D, but that was based solely on what I read on PP. so I started reading on other sites and more importantly started asking around to local Mechanics and the many locals with Hilux's, not so many Prados around here but every man and and his dog has a D4D Lux. Anyway after my own research and then going back and thouroughly analysing whats on this site I realised that the actual reported numbers weren't anything like I thought they were.

So just to clarify, I am not saying there is no issue, clearly there is, but once you remove the ones that are self inflicted (like a guy on the Hilux forum that fitted Petrol injection to his D4D and wondered why it blew up). Those that fall into the category of regular normal maintenance, changing injectors every 100 thou or so has been standard practice since Adam was a lad, and those that Toyota admit is there fault and fix under warranty how many are left?

Cheers Andrew

So true Andrew and take it as those that have had troubles have been a minority although I do feel sorry for them in getting the lemon or the friday/monday build. I felt that I had done the wrong thing using this and other forums to make a big decision on purchasing my Kakadu. But in the end I felt I have seen thru the fog and take it as it comes as there are a lot more out there who have had troubles with other brands than there have been with Toyota and this being my first Toyota. Including the broken backs of Rangers and BT50's and many other troubles not only in the 4x4 class either

[cjsilk Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close cjsilk]

No need to be sorry for not giving your appreciation publicly, I only mentioned it as Roo specifically quoted your response. In fact every time I have questioned Roo on his posts in a similar fashion to this current debate I generally recieve lots of PM's or positive feedback points from people expressing similar sentiments to yourself. I also get a number from people thanking me for standing up to someone they see as a bully.

I am also pleased that you felt a calming influence from my post, that is really what I am aiming at here. Its really easy on a forum to whip up a problem and make it seem larger than it might be in reality. I too went through a stage of thinking I made a huge mistake in getting the D4D, but that was based solely on what I read on PP. so I started reading on other sites and more importantly started asking around to local Mechanics and the many locals with Hilux's, not so many Prados around here but every man and and his dog has a D4D Lux. Anyway after my own research and then going back and thouroughly analysing whats on this site I realised that the actual reported numbers weren't anything like I thought they were.

So just to clarify, I am not saying there is no issue, clearly there is, but once you remove the ones that are self inflicted (like a guy on the Hilux forum that fitted Petrol injection to his D4D and wondered why it blew up). Those that fall into the category of regular normal maintenance, changing injectors every 100 thou or so has been standard practice since Adam was a lad, and those that Toyota admit is there fault and fix under warranty how many are left?

Cheers Andrew

So true Andrew and take it as those that have had troubles have been a minority although I do feel sorry for them in getting the lemon or the friday/monday build. I felt that I had done the wrong thing using this and other forums to make a big decision on purchasing my Kakadu. But in the end I felt I have seen thru the fog and take it as it comes as there are a lot more out there who have had troubles with other brands than there have been with Toyota and this being my first Toyota. Including the broken backs of Rangers and BT50's and many other troubles not only in the 4x4 class either I will continue to realise that there are no perfect vehicles out there for what we do as there is no one manufacturing purely for Australian conditions. Until this happens I feel we will see many breakdowns from many brands but I feel Toyota will have the least of these as they have a good product in many vehicles they build and have been around longer. Yes they probably have rested on their laurels a bit but this is no different to Mercedes or BMW.

[Octane94 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Octane94]

Hmmm..... Gee, I have six sets in the next couple of months. As stated before, I am only one person. You are part of an organisation, Toyota Service.
I mean, when I talk to anybody that I respect that works within Toyota Service, that's not the information that I get.
Then there's the flames on the Toyota hat logo. Is that something to do with what you are being paid by your dealership?
The Roo.

Nope got it off google images i wish i got paid for it :P

[Octane94 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Octane94]

John are you a diesel mechanic or a general mechanic?

just curious

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

So this little tirade started after this innocent question.

So far no more than a couple of instances out Australias 300,000 odd d4d's, was this thread a beatup on D4D motors like you get on other forums about Ranger's breaking in half and clutches in colarado's.

So Roo amongst other things you replied with this.

There is no beats up here Mr. Toyota, just fact. You are the one that is not being factual. There is no beats ups on here on your belovered D4D.
Rangers breaking in half, never heard of that one.

I have deleted all the examples Roo listed to justify his point as it was a long post, feel free to go to post #181 for the full text, I also don't like repeating false information.


So now, you can get off your little marketing pony you meek bastard. I just hope these sorts of failures happen to people like you in the middle of nowhere. Hopefully you will have no water in the middle of the Simpson Desert or something.The Roo.

Because some dared ask a legitimate question you basically wished they would break down in the desert and die of thirst! I really was trying to be gentle when I said you were borderline abusive in what you posted, I regret that comment as what you actually posted is absolutely disgusting, If I were a moderator on this forum I would have you suspended or kicked off for using such language.

And after I show that everything you posted to justify your position is in fact incorrect what is your response? To laugh it off as a joke, sorry but you are the joke Roo.

Without wishing to offend anyone, it also amazes me that people would thank you in this thread after reading the passages I quoted above, I guess some people are much more tolerant of people sending death wishes to other members than I am. I guess there is no point anyone giving you negative reputation for the false information and the death wishes either, as you will just come back and called them low life backstabbers.

Cheers Andrew

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

So now, you can get off your little marketing pony you meek bastard. I just hope these sorts of failures happen to people like you in the middle of nowhere. Hopefully you will have no water in the middle of the Simpson Desert or something.
The Roo.

I must apologize for going on about this again, but after my post above I have been thinking about this and find myself bitterly dissapointed by the wider PP community.

There are nearly 19 thousand members on this forum, thousands of threads, hundreds of thousands if not millions of posts, and I challenge anyone to find anyone in any other thread that has posted anything more disgusting and offensive than what Roo has in the above quote. And almost everyone that has read it has ignored it.

Now I know I have posted stuff that has upset people, I have been taken to task only recently for something I posted and I fully respect the person that questioned me, we had a PM conversation about it and agreed to disagree. I can assure you what I posted was not even in the ballpark of being as offensive as the above yet all I hear is silence. Whats worse is that is just one example of a number of offensive comments by the same person in this thread and not only does he not get taken to task for it; he actually gets praised after posting such stuff.

Please tell me if I am wrong as I am bewildered and disappointed beyond belief at the lack of response from the wider PP community.

Cheers Andrew