150 Prado - 40000km Service.. Facts

[slimf Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close slimf]

Hi Everyone

My 150 Prado is due for its 40000km service.. and there is some confusion regarding what should be done in regards to injectors.

My belief was that Toyota replaced the injector seals (and o ring).. However my local dealer says that this is not the case.

Can someone clarify this with facts?

[slider_phil Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close slider_phil]

Not sure on current procedures but when I was last working at Toyota (2 years ago) we did not remove the injectors on a major service and replace injector seals. The valve cover is removed only to check the valve clearances. I can't see any reason for it to be done. If an injector washer fails then you are going to be leaking combustion and you will most certainly notice a lack of power and a different noise.

Unless of course since I worked there they've release a service campaign to do them for a particular reason.

[slimf Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close slimf]

Ok cool. Thanks for that. Dropped car off today and got same story.

Only concern is rattle when cold, they are doing cold start test tomorrow morning.

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

As a point of no interest whatsoever, TMNZ directs their dealers to replaces the injector seats every 40,000 whereas TMCA does not...

[slider_phil Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close slider_phil]

Thanks for the information 'D4D'. I wasn't aware of this. Although we did get information on what other regions where doing recall wise and why we in Australia weren't doing it. Usually it was because the car made for our market came out of a different factory and didn't have the same issue etc.

I bet there's a document somewhere on this from TMCA that states why the NZ market replaces the injector seats and we do not and I'd love to read it!

But again, my whole time at Toyota I never saw an issue with injector seats leaking from the 1KD motor so I'd say there's nothing to worry about

[AussieAndy Find all posts View Profile Close AussieAndy]

Thanks for the information 'D4D'. I wasn't aware of this. Although we did get information on what other regions where doing recall wise and why we in Australia weren't doing it. Usually it was because the car made for our market came out of a different factory and didn't have the same issue etc.

I bet there's a document somewhere on this from TMCA that states why the NZ market replaces the injector seats and we do not and I'd love to read it!

But again, my whole time at Toyota I never saw an issue with injector seats leaking from the 1KD motor so I'd say there's nothing to worry about

Ummmm........
You have never seen injector seats leaking????
How many sets of injectors have you had out? Leaking injector seats are a common problem on the early 1KD. I have seen countless injector seats leaking, as have many other mechanics out there. I haven't seen any 150 seats leaking, but I don't work on a lot of 150's. I beleive the new style seats are a lot better, but still not immune to leakage.

To answer you question slimf, most people wouldn't touch the injectors at 40,000 service. It would be considered normal practice to leave it be at the 40

[slider_phil Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close slider_phil]

I've had plenty of sets out, over 20 I'd say at my time there, mostly from the very early 1KDs (06ish). They all came out usually for the common complaint of injector rattle and of course the compensation codes are usually stuck on +5 or -5.

I'm not doubting the facts, I'm sure it happens, its only a copper washer and an o-ring and I see it quiet a bit on the bigger stuff I work on these days (Iveco and Cummins). Just stating in my experience that I didn't see evidence of them leaking on the engines I worked on when I was at Toyota.

Having only recently just picked up a 150 series I'll most definitely be keeping an eye on things mechanically but its good to hear the design has changed to help prevent these issues!

[slimf Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close slimf]

Ok, so I have been told by Toyota service manager that:

a) They check the valve clearances WITHOUT removing the injector
b) They do NOT replace the injector seal, as they do not remove the injector.

The results of my cold start test however were not good. Car has 40500km, one injector out of spec - This explains the sounds I get on cold mornings. Now waiting for new injector to arrive. (they say they will only replace the single faulty unit).

I asked for a camera picture of the piston - To prove no damage had been done - they claim not to have the appropriate tool to take the photo - Boroscope I think its called.

[slider_phil Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close slider_phil]

An Injector out of spec would not automatically cause piston damage. Those numbers (+5 to -5) are compensation adjustments and from when I was there anything past +3 or less than -3 was considered out of spec and warrant a replacement. Now the Engine Control Unit can add or reduce the amount of fuel for each injector individually every time it fires. They also fire between 3 to 7 times per stroke. They vary to fuel to each injector to compensate for the other injectors and they do this by measuring engine speed from the Camshaft and Crankshaft position sensors to effectively balance the motor. The amount of times they fire is also to do with this plus some other things to do with reducing diesel knock and in some motors (not the D4D), they will fire extra fuel after the main event to help heat up an exhaust Diesel Particulate Filter. Although on most passenger stuff there is a separate injector for that as the DPF is too far away from the engine for that to be effective but its not really applicable to what we're discussing.

HOWEVER, for peace of mind it would be nice to see the piston and any workshop should have a boroscope for such measures. In my experience a failed injector that's stuck on will destroy a piston VERY quickly and you will usually get some sort of engine code before that happens.

EDIT. I should also note that you can trick an injector to be out of spec by doing a cylinder cut test and the ECU will try to smooth out the engine by compensating with the injectors. Cummins had a rather interesting issue with their "insite" program where you could cut more than 1 cylinder at a time. This meant that a few people cut each cylinder down until only 1 was firing and the ECU was of course trying to compensate and put so much force through one pot, usually the last one and they would snap a crankshaft. This happened quite a few times and as far as I'm aware thats been patched out of the program :P

[slimf Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close slimf]

150 Prado - 40000km Service.. Facts

Toyota say it was at 3.5 while the rest were between 1 and 1.5.

So is it weird that they don't own a boroscope?

[slider_phil Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close slider_phil]

Yes, they should have been required to get one when the cross member recalls where being done on the KUN26 Hilux's 4 years ago. They where used for inspecting the inner cross member for cracks in the stress points and photos had to be taken to submit a warranty claim if it was found to be cracked.

[slimf Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close slimf]

Slider Phil - They say they no longer have one - That this recall is well and over with.. Thou, they are going to try to find one from another dealer.. Will see what happens.

[slider_phil Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close slider_phil]

Fair enough, although I find it strange that they got rid of it after the recall was done with. It's not like they had to hand them back to Toyota lol.

Anyway, good luck with it! The piston won't be damaged but its nice to be able to do a visual peace of mind check.

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Ummmm........
You have never seen injector seats leaking????
How many sets of injectors have you had out? Leaking injector seats are a common problem on the early 1KD. I have seen countless injector seats leaking, as have many other mechanics out there. I haven't seen any 150 seats leaking, but I don't work on a lot of 150's. I beleive the new style seats are a lot better, but still not immune to leakage.

To answer you question slimf, most people wouldn't touch the injectors at 40,000 service. It would be considered normal practice to leave it be at the 40

Once again a very accurate post Andy.

Seats leak all the time & it's hard to tell by how it runs, easy to tell looking at the oil pickup.

I will throw it out there again, the customer service exercise letter confirms Toyota did want seats changed as part of the valve clearance checks.
As a vehicle tech with a brain, I have my own service programmes for these vehicles & I clearly explain it for customers.
I'm confident these coated seats are 99.99999999% ok till 120k as are the valve clearances, so we don't open the fuel system till then.
When we do, it's new injectors and pipes as well because that's when they are due on my schedule. (If they make it).
Injectors need to be checked from cold every 10,000klms, every service.

[Riv39 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Riv39]

####, the dealer I take my Prado to does not agree on cold start tests (At least not the last time I asked for it). They state that they should be tested warm. I disagree but as usual the customer is never right.