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Oils aint Oils when it comes to EGR issues

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  • Oils aint Oils when it comes to EGR issues

    Just had new injectors and EGR/Manifold clean by 4WD mechanic in Melbourne. EGR and manifold were badly choked.. He recommended using and C3 grade Euro IV standard oil which has a low SAP (sulphur and Phosphate) . He stated that Toyota Australia have now changed over to this, belatedly so??
    His opinion, based on experience, is that in order to minimise fouling of the EGR a C3 rated oil is needed. It also reduces smoking (Health dept will be into this)..Engine smoking I gather.. Below is an information sheet from Western Oil Australia on these new rated oils. Be interested in hearing from others what they have heard.

    What has Euro IV meant for engine lubricants?
    To effectively lubricate these newer technology high speed high horsepower die
    needed to be improved. They have to;
    • Be generally of lower viscosity, and offer a wider viscosity range to cater for change in engine designs such as closer
    internal clearances and tolerances.
    • Use highly stable “stay in grade” synthetic base oil and additives to allow for extended drain intervals and reliable
    performance in extremes of environmental and mechanical conditions.
    • Be low in Sulphur and Phosphorous (Low SAPs) to preserve petrol engine cata
    service life.
    • Be a fuel conserving style of lubricant to assist in achieving exceptional fuel economy common to the new generation of
    motor vehicles.
    • Be effective in keeping hard oil deposits and sludge to
    changes.
    Therefore Euro IV Low SAPs lubricants are very sophisticated lubricants and are somewhat more expensive a formula than
    the regular and mid SAPs products of equivalent grade and service level.

  • #2
    Was that central that reccomended ?

    Comment


    • #3
      I was given the same advice so I had the low SAP oil put in last oil change.
      The thing to be aware of is, it is over twice the price of a good regular oil.

      I think for the 1KD engines a better regime is to use a good quality regular oil, but make sure you change it every 5,000km so you ( or your mech ) can inspect the oil pickup. This is crucial.

      That is the regime I have gone back to.

      To minimise EGR and inlet manifold carbonisation, possibly get an EGR reducer plate fitted and using a decarboniser additive in the fuel is a better option ?

      Are you sure Toyota are using the low SAP oil in D4-D diesel services ?
      They have to use it in the new 2.8 diesels with DPFs maybe there is some confusion there.
      Be interesting to hear from someone who has had a 1KD serviced recently ,what oil they used ( the price would be an indicator )
      ozwapet2
      Advanced Member
      Last edited by ozwapet2; 08-06-2016, 08:15 AM.
      Cheers, Wayne

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ozwapet2 View Post
        I was given the same advice so I had the low SAP oil put in last oil change.
        The thing to be aware of is, it is over twice the price of a good regular oil.

        I think for the 1KD engines a better regime is to use a good quality regular oil, but make sure you change it every 5,000km so you ( or your mech ) can inspect the oil pickup. This is crucial.

        That is the regime I have gone back to.

        To minimise EGR and inlet manifold carbonisation, possibly get an EGR reducer plate fitted and using a decarboniser additive in the fuel is a better option ?

        Are you sure Toyota are using the low SAP oil in D4-D diesel services ?
        They have to use it in the new 2.8 diesels with DPFs maybe there is some confusion there.
        Be interesting to hear from someone who has had a 1KD serviced recently ,what oil they used ( the price would be an indicator )
        Good thoughts.
        I'm open to ideas, but I'm not sure different oil would change much.
        The oil is the glue, it's the soot in the exhaust which is the main issue here.
        Certainly the restrictor plate improves things massively.
        93% less flow.

        I have has discussions with oil companies & they don't see how it would change soot.
        They have confirmed less additives like zinc, which is what sticks to engine parts. This is what provides protection at start up, when most wear is. Less additives may mean less protection.
        So if you use low sap your engine may only last a million Klm's :-)


        Curious to know if it was same shop with recommendation. Awaiting o.p reply.

        Cheers,

        ####.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by robo1 View Post
          Just had new injectors and EGR/Manifold clean by 4WD mechanic in Melbourne. EGR and manifold were badly choked.. He recommended using and C3 grade Euro IV standard oil which has a low SAP (sulphur and Phosphate) . He stated that Toyota Australia have now changed over to this, belatedly so??
          His opinion, based on experience, is that in order to minimise fouling of the EGR a C3 rated oil is needed. It also reduces smoking (Health dept will be into this)..Engine smoking I gather.. Below is an information sheet from Western Oil Australia on these new rated oils. Be interested in hearing from others what they have heard.

          What has Euro IV meant for engine lubricants?
          To effectively lubricate these newer technology high speed high horsepower die
          needed to be improved. They have to;
          • Be generally of lower viscosity, and offer a wider viscosity range to cater for change in engine designs such as closer
          internal clearances and tolerances.
          • Use highly stable “stay in grade” synthetic base oil and additives to allow for extended drain intervals and reliable
          performance in extremes of environmental and mechanical conditions.
          • Be low in Sulphur and Phosphorous (Low SAPs) to preserve petrol engine cata
          service life.
          • Be a fuel conserving style of lubricant to assist in achieving exceptional fuel economy common to the new generation of
          motor vehicles.
          • Be effective in keeping hard oil deposits and sludge to
          changes.
          Therefore Euro IV Low SAPs lubricants are very sophisticated lubricants and are somewhat more expensive a formula than
          the regular and mid SAPs products of equivalent grade and service level.
          OK, so, give me the name of such an oil so I can nip down to Super Cheap and buy some.
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          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by MidLifeCrisis View Post
            OK, so, give me the name of such an oil so I can nip down to Super Cheap and buy some.
            https://www.penriteoil.com.au/produc...d_products=710
            Arb colour code deluxe bar, safari snorkel, lightforce venom HID's, GME uhf remote face, redarc tow pro, redarc bcdc 1240, pioneer platform, 40" curved light bar, dual battery, 3" SS exhaust, EGR mod, trans cooler upgrade, provent catch can, scangauge 2, diesel care secondary fuel filter, Tin's bash plates and actuator gaurd, 2in Bilstien and kings lift,

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MidLifeCrisis View Post
              OK, so, give me the name of such an oil so I can nip down to Super Cheap and buy some.
              the text above appears to have come from a Western Oil information sheet.
              http://www.westernoil.com.au/upload/...Low%20SAPs.pdf

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes it was central. I am willing to give it a go, anything to stop EGR cleanout. Re wear and tear, I am willing to be guided by those in the know. There are a few brands on the market that are C3 rated. Its not as cheap but if you buy it when shops have sales (as I did last w/e 30% off), its not too bad. Also cheaper if you buy it in 20 litre drums.
                Last edited by robo1; 08-06-2016, 12:01 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Can't do any harm.
                  I note all of the low SAP seem to be 5W/40.
                  Cheers, Wayne

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ozwapet2 View Post
                    Can't do any harm.
                    I note all of the low SAP seem to be 5W/40.
                    No, most of your C* rated oils are lower weight graded. Go to E* rated oils and they are back up to 15W40 and the like. C* rated oils are speced for modern light automotive diesel vehicles. E* rated oils are speced for light duty trucks upward. If you are looking for a 15W40 oil to meet a low SAPS requirement try looking for an E9 spec oil in the ACEA ratings. An API CJ-4 ACEA E9 15W40 oil is what I use in my 1KD, Castrol Vecton.

                    There are many different types of oil on the market, you just need to know how to find it. Most oil manufacturers don't give a lot of oil options in the "diesel car" category, try looking at light trucks.

                    Oh, and in my opinion using a low SAPS oil to control EGR build up will have very little (almost no) effect. Most of the soot build up is diesel soot, not oil burning soot. Think about how much oil your vehicle uses between services (not a lot), that is how much soot the oil contributes to emissions (bugger all), then what percentage of that is recycled through the EGR system (even less), and finally what percentage of that is then deposited to the manifold walls (almost nothing).

                    The reason I use this oil is I get it from work and it is the best 15W40 oil we get in bulk. I use 15W40 because I live in Queensland (see very little cold weather) and my vehicle does get used under load a bit (towing, etc.).
                    Last edited by AussieAndy; 08-06-2016, 01:20 PM. Reason: More info
                    [LEFT]Silver 150 Facelift
                    TJM Bullbar, Lightforce Genisis Spots, Dual Battery System with bits from everyone, Powerful 4x4 slider/steps, Kaymar rear bar, "Genuine" Roof Racks, MSA Seatcovers, Dashmat, Tint, LED Interior Globes, Bridgestone D697s [/LEFT]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by robo1 View Post
                      Yes it was central. I am willing to give it a go, anything to stop EGR cleanout. Re wear and tear, I am willing to be guided by those in the know. There are a few brands on the market that are C3 rated. Its not as cheap but if you buy it when shops have sales (as I did last w/e 30% off), its not too bad. Also cheaper if you buy it in 20 litre drums.
                      Cheers.


                      Originally posted by AussieAndy View Post

                      Oh, and in my opinion using a low SAPS oil to control EGR build up will have very little (almost no) effect. Most of the soot build up is diesel soot, not oil burning soot. Think about how much oil your vehicle uses between services (not a lot), that is how much soot the oil contributes to emissions (bugger all), then what percentage of that is recycled through the EGR system (even less), and finally what percentage of that is then deposited to the manifold walls (almost nothing).

                      The reason I use this oil is I get it from work and it is the best 15W40 oil we get in bulk. I use 15W40 because I live in Queensland (see very little cold weather) and my vehicle does get used under load a bit (towing, etc.).
                      So your not just a pretty face

                      Agreed!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks guys for all your input, I will have a chat with the mechanic next time I am in there to get some more details on this and pass on some of the thoughts above... He seemed pretty certain on it, he also thought that we should use 5w30! I will always defer to the person with greater knowledge, but this forum through collective knowledge could be a better indicator which has proven itself over and over again.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by robo1 View Post
                          Thanks guys for all your input, I will have a chat with the mechanic next time I am in there to get some more details on this and pass on some of the thoughts above... He seemed pretty certain on it, he also thought that we should use 5w30! I will always defer to the person with greater knowledge, but this forum through collective knowledge could be a better indicator which has proven itself over and over again.
                          My dealer recommends and uses 5w-30. The handbook states 5w-30 preferred so why would you use anything else.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            One more thought on this issue. I agree with post form Aussie Andy, but that being the case, why is it that we have oils that are or are not recommended for diesels with particulate oil filters? If the soot is from diesel soot and not from burning of oil, why do we need these specific oils.
                            (WV1 mine is a 120 series, but this EGR issue is as we know common to both the 120 and 150 series, the oil type may differ between models, not sure, but my mechanic did recommend 5w-30 for my 120)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              When the additives in the oil burn they form ash containing certain compounds. These damage catalysts and block dpf's.
                              2019 GXL, Bullbar, UHF, Redarc Brake Controller, Tow Bar, Secondary Fuel Filter

                              Comment

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