DPF and white smoke

[LeadWings]

From my uneducated guestimations, there seems to be 2 failure mechanism:

First suspect issue with the system is the injector not the actual filter itself. As soon as the injector no longer atomizes properly, you will get inefficient burn, that means the filter won't get cooked clean. This would lead to the white smoke of un-burn diesel. Not sure what would foul the injector?

The second is the filter. From what I understand this is a whole lot of small pipes in a honeycomb arrangement (think a bundle of straws taped together). Without "perfect" regen, individual pipes are not cooked clean, leaving build-up in the pipe. On the next regen, a pipe with buildup will get less flow, therefore less heat, therefore not regen/clean properly and blow the particulates out. Vicious cycle. So then some of the pipes/straws block, exhaust back pressure builds up tot he point engine performance suffers.

Frightening that they are seeing failures (and in Cuda's experience multiple failures) so young.

[cuda]

All I can say is F$*!. New DPF replaced at I think 22,000km. Car is now coming up to 40,000km service and guess what the DPF is now playing up again.

Symptoms
1. DPF temp while running at 100km/h drops below 500 deg unless I change down to 4th and rev the engine.
2. Temp when idle on burn seems to be also below 500 deg.
3. Current burn ceased twice through cycle and percentage full started to increase.
4. Current km's travelled since start of burn up to 72km and this was with a high percentage of the burn on hwy speed.
5. No white smoke visible

My guess the 5th injector has ceased to inject or is blocked. Will have it in to Toyota in the next few days to sort out.

Question for all though is once vehicle is out of current warranty how is the DPF issue going to be handled? If its failing to frequently then there needs to be some leeway into how warranty claims are made on this issue outside normal warranty period.

Not happy

cuda

[JohnLynn]

This update is in addition to the recall update that was done at 40,000km service. We'll see what happens.. Maybe I should cite the fire hazard line, or perhaps being at risk of yellow sticker, which is all true

I wonder what the difference is between the 40,000 km update and this additional one which is just for the DPF?

This is a copy of my post in the capped service thread so apologies for a double post but I think it may be more relevant in this thread:
I have booked my 40,000 km service for next week, even though I have only done 20,000 km. Apparently they need the vehicle all morning as it is "a big one" according to the woman on the phone.
She told me that I will also be getting the update which will be done under the guarantee, when I asked if this was the GGG38 which changes the burn for the DPF she had no idea. Can you wonder that I am a grumpy old git with very little faith in my servicing dealer?
I will try to find out when I take the Prado in what the update involves, remember that it is a manual and does seem to reach temperatures that are hot enough for the the filter to regenerate properly. I am not suggesting that automatics don't but the fast tick-over during a burn is higher and this is when the highest DPF temperature is reached.
I have monitored and recorded the distance between regens and time/kms of the burn plus temperature of the DPF so I hope I will be able to see what difference this upgrade makes.

BTW my average consumption is 8.5/100

[Kalgoorlieprado]

That's me to a tea. If you can remember back when you weren't having issues what was your fuel economy then? I had the ECU update after the white smoke/ clog thing as well and it obviously wasn't enough to fix it - 5000Kms later it was a DPF replacement.

I recall it being more like 10L/100, rather than about 14L/100 these days.

I picked up the vehicle this arvo. Haven't had a chance to drive it much but will keep an eye out over the next week or so. They did do a manual burn, which when done last time, did lower my fuel usage to 11L/100 for a while. Service manager said they've installed a new piece of software and to give it a run, and if still no good they'll change the DPF

[CamJam]

A brief history on my situation.. 2016 GXL w/ approx 50,000km.. Had an issue mid year with DPF light coming on and flashing. Managed to get it to dealership in Kalgoorlie (was in between Newman and Wiluna, not happy!) without too much drama. A whole lot of blah blah blah from dealership.. Now it is there again, 3 visits later. Light doesn't come on anymore but noticing terrible fuel econ and occasional big cloud of white smoke. Got told this time they got some kind of software update from Toyota HQ, and to see how that goes for a little while. If no good, will look at ordering new DPF.

This update is in addition to the recall update that was done at 40,000km service. We'll see what happens.. Maybe I should cite the fire hazard line, or perhaps being at risk of yellow sticker, which is all true

That's me to a tea. If you can remember back when you weren't having issues what was your fuel economy then? I had the ECU update after the white smoke/ clog thing as well and it obviously wasn't enough to fix it - 5000Kms later it was a DPF replacement.

[prado R83D]

Sounds like you need a new DPF mate.

[Kalgoorlieprado]

Double post.. oops

[Kalgoorlieprado]

A brief history on my situation.. 2016 GXL w/ approx 50,000km.. Had an issue mid year with DPF light coming on and flashing. Managed to get it to dealership in Kalgoorlie (was in between Newman and Wiluna, not happy!) without too much drama. A whole lot of blah blah blah from dealership.. Now it is there again, 3 visits later. Light doesn't come on anymore but noticing terrible fuel econ and occasional big cloud of white smoke. Got told this time they got some kind of software update from Toyota HQ, and to see how that goes for a little while. If no good, will look at ordering new DPF.

This update is in addition to the recall update that was done at 40,000km service. We'll see what happens.. Maybe I should cite the fire hazard line, or perhaps being at risk of yellow sticker, which is all true

[LeadWings]

Reports from Cuda and others suggest that the regen is started by distance travelled and fuel used not by what I consider would be a sensible approach of measuring how much resistance is in the filter.

John, I am guessing they can't use pressure differential as that would be a function of how much gas is going through, so RPM, load etc so too hard to calculate unless done at constant conditions (eg no load idle).

[prodoco]

Yeah, once you start mentioning all this jargon do you really think it is a good idea to be taking a vehicle like this out into the bush? On top of this you also have to be super careful where you drive and park regarding the DPF and spinifex. Check out this thread on Exploroz, somebodies new vehicle burnt to the ground and trip ruined.

https://www.exploroz.com/forum/13514...o-hot-for-some

Goodbye reliable old diesel.

Agree, with 600C - 700C during DPF burn, bush land is definitely no go for Vehicle with DPF.

I believe yellow sign with '4WD only' will be changed in few years time to '4WD without DPF only'.

Good bye reliable old diesel, hello long range electric 4WD.

[Falco80]

For your trip in mid-Dec i highly recommend you should have your torque pro manual DPF burn (workshop force regeneration) custom PID ready in case if you get into limp mode plus screen of DPF Temp ( exhaust gas temp sensor 2 ) and DPF countdown ( 1-100, 100 burn start ) monitoring. Thread here showing all the custom PID codes : http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...with-OBD-tools

Yeah, once you start mentioning all this jargon do you really think it is a good idea to be taking a vehicle like this out into the bush? On top of this you also have to be super careful where you drive and park regarding the DPF and spinifex. Check out this thread on Exploroz, somebodies new vehicle burnt to the ground and trip ruined.

https://www.exploroz.com/forum/13514...o-hot-for-some

Goodbye reliable old diesel.

[prodoco]

....duplicated......

[prodoco]

Ok, update again. It's now done closer to 3000km's post the DPF replacement and for 2200 of those kilometres I saw no white smoke, the squealing stopped in the engine bay or drivetrain (it was from somewhere) and I amazingly returned to an average of 9.3L/100km (down from high 11's) just like it did when new. Perfect.

About 300km's ago, the squealing started again. The Fuel usage is now 11.7L/100 (averaged over 450km's) and it's booked in for a look again in early December. I know the Re-gen had been 'done' - the fuel usage on the trip meter when upwards of 30L/100 while doing it for about 15 seconds at a time - but once again when I parked it (very soon after) I couldn't smell that DPF smell, even under the car. At least I didn't see white smoke (yet).

I've lost trust in this car taking my family outback in mid-December. And that, for me, is the end of it. I'll sort it out one more time else there'll be a Prado being traded in shortly! I REALLY wish they kept the Petrol in the new model - the Prado is awesome and Toyota have been (surprisingly, I must admit) very good at helping, I just have issues with the DPF.

Anyway - come December I'll put something up about what they've found this time.

I did nose the tail pipe during DPF burn but hadn't smell any plastic smell since DPF replacement few weeks ago. I was bit worried until torque pro shows 650 to 700+C from exhaust gas temp sensor 2 during burn. For your trip in mid-Dec i highly recommend you should have your torque pro manual DPF burn (workshop force regeneration) custom PID ready in case if you get into limp mode plus screen of DPF Temp ( exhaust gas temp sensor 2 ) and DPF countdown ( 1-100, 100 burn start ) monitoring. Thread here showing all the custom PID codes : http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...with-OBD-tools

[JohnLynn]

I am still trying to find a way to monitor the pressure difference either side of the filter. As I am able to run torque on my Chinese head unit I often watch the exhaust temperatures and DPF %. My regens in a manual (no idea if this makes a difference) seem to happen more frequently than has been described on here but the DPF gets hot enough and I assume it is clearing OK as no issues at all yet. Fuel economy has been good since new, and I am looking forward to hearing if I am due for the ecu "upgrade" at the next service in a couple of weeks time.
I am convinced that if there were a way to monitor the delta pressure we would know what is happening. Reports from Cuda and others suggest that the regen is started by distance travelled and fuel used not by what I consider would be a sensible approach of measuring how much resistance is in the filter. I think the length of burn is determined by temperature and time, so this doesn't really mean that the filter is cleared.
Meanwhile I keep trying custom pids in torque by trial and (mainly) error to see if I can make any sense of it. I have just received a lead for Techstream from China but despite trying many ways of adding the drivers it will not work in windows 10 64 bit. Works fine with XP though.

[CamJam]

Ok, update again. It's now done closer to 3000km's post the DPF replacement and for 2200 of those kilometres I saw no white smoke, the squealing stopped in the engine bay or drivetrain (it was from somewhere) and I amazingly returned to an average of 9.3L/100km (down from high 11's) just like it did when new. Perfect.

About 300km's ago, the squealing started again. The Fuel usage is now 11.7L/100 (averaged over 450km's) and it's booked in for a look again in early December. I know the Re-gen had been 'done' - the fuel usage on the trip meter when upwards of 30L/100 while doing it for about 15 seconds at a time - but once again when I parked it (very soon after) I couldn't smell that DPF smell, even under the car. At least I didn't see white smoke (yet).

I've lost trust in this car taking my family outback in mid-December. And that, for me, is the end of it. I'll sort it out one more time else there'll be a Prado being traded in shortly! I REALLY wish they kept the Petrol in the new model - the Prado is awesome and Toyota have been (surprisingly, I must admit) very good at helping, I just have issues with the DPF.

Anyway - come December I'll put something up about what they've found this time.