Diesel - refuelling problem

[Nifty07 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nifty07]

Re: Diesel - refuelling problem

Steve,

Buckle up and take a cut lunch, you will need it if you want to fill the tank to the top.

High flow and Super High Flow (wont quite go in) seem to get more in but the problem is still with the vehicle.

I doubt it is with the pump as my brother would fill his 120 to the top, then I would use the same pump but have heaps of problems getting the fuel into the tank. He would insist on filling his Prado first. When it was my turn he would find a spot for lunch and have finished his cuppa by the time I got mine filled.

Toyota sent a dealer report in. I spoke to them today and am advised nothing has come back. They implied I am the only person having this problem.

I seem to think the Caltex Vortex has less foaming but cannot really compare accurately as I dont ususally use BP, they dont have a petrol station near my home or other fuels.

In frustration I bent a coat hanger and fitted this into the aux tank filler line to hold the flap open. Whist this seemed to improve the situation it is still very frustating to fill. The filler fills with foam, gurgles then allows a bit more diesel in, then you have to repeat this process for the last 20-30 litres to fill the tank.

The problem continues even with normal pumps, high flow and super high flow.

If anyone has any ideas please post them.

Regards,

Nifty

[bobcat67 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close bobcat67]

Re: Diesel - refuelling problem

I changed from BP to Shell. Takes me a lot less time, like half it used to maybe more filling with Shell. Normal flow and hi flow pumps take about the same time. The only difference is more foaming with hi flow but the initial fill is quicker.

I've had the DTE to 30kms and only put 137ltrs in my 150 prado. The fuel warning light was on. Not sure how accurate these are.

I'll be filling up with Shell when I can.

[Kaka do Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Kaka do]

Re: Diesel - refuelling problem

I found that the fast flow can get more fuel into the tank before it starts gurgling and bubbling out the fuel spout. THis indicates to me it is something to do with the flap spring tension.

Took it back to Toyota today and they told me they can do nothing to fix it. They indicated they would send in a tech report to Toyota.

No real impressed, paid $75,000 for a Prado, which has 150 litre tank (not 180 as did the 120 model) and then you cannot fill it. What rubbish....

Does anyone else have similar issues or know of a fix?

Nifty.

I have exactly the same problem. I bought this up at the 10k service and the dealer told me "the tank only takes 120-130 litres from empty on the gauge as each tank has 12 litres reserve remaining once the fuel light comes on. So that means you still have 24 litres remaining." :? :?
I don’t believe them at all and agree that the tank has a filling problem because if I persist I can get another 20 litres in to get a FULL tank.

[Strider Member Find all posts View Profile Close Strider]

Re: Diesel - refuelling problem

I fueled up on the weekend with 25 klm left on the range readout. 140 litres to the first click. I dont use the high flow pumps, could that be your problem?

Alan.

[Kaka do Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Kaka do]

Re: Diesel - refuelling problem

I fueled up on the weekend with 25 klm left on the range readout. 140 litres to the first click. I dont use the high flow pumps, could that be your problem?

Alan.

Makes No difference at all which pump I use, Hi Flow or Standard Caltex or BP

[Riv39 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Riv39]

Re: Diesel - refuelling problem

I fueled up on the weekend with 25 klm left on the range readout. 140 litres to the first click. I dont use the high flow pumps, could that be your problem?

Alan.

Makes No difference at all which pump I use, Hi Flow or Standard Caltex or BP

I assume that when you try to fill from near empty that when the pump first clicks that your gauge does not read full?

[Strider Member Find all posts View Profile Close Strider]

Re: Diesel - refuelling problem

Quite the opposite, it is as full as the proverbial goog! I am lucky to be able to round it up the nearest $ and the gauge is hitting the stop.

Alan

[Nifty07 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nifty07]

Re: Diesel - refuelling problem

I purchased a Prado (2010 shape) and since new have had refuelling problems as per previous posts. The issue being the diesel foams up the filler spout, you have to wait a short time, it gurgles, then you can get another litre in for the process to be repeated. This happens for the last 20-30 litres.

My brother’s Prado 120 refuels at the same pump without problems and then it takes me 30-45 minutes to refuel my Prado 150. A friend who also has a 150 has the same problem. This issue is related to the 150 model and not the 120 as we use the same pump. It appears to me that I can get more fuel in using the high flow pump than the normal pump.

This problem has been referred to Toyota on no fewer than 10 times, at 5 different dealers and yet none can fix the problem.

At the 30,000 service Toyota replaced the rear tank and checked the hoses. At 37,000kms I noted a fuel leak and reported this to Toyota. Due to schedules I had to take it to another Toyota where they told me they fixed the fuel leak problem after they had the car all day I then refuelled the vehicle to find it still has the refuelling problem.

I went home and a few hours later I was woken by neighbours who called the fire brigade as the vehicle had leaked diesel fuel down the driveway and in the gutter of my neighbour’s property.

I contacted Toyota who arranged a loan vehicle and had my Prado overnight. I picked up my Prado the next day to be told the seal on top of the tank had failed causing the fuel leak.

Toyota told me they did not have a seal so they removed 20 litres of fuel from the tank (into a can and returned this to me) and made a booking to have the fault fixed.

Now my wife refuses to drive the Prado through fear of it catching fire or running out of diesel. I cannot park it in the locked garage as it stinks the whole house out and diesel is had to clean off the concrete floor. My wife hates the Prado 150 and I am at the stage of divorce though these frustrations.

Oh what a feeling.

Nifty

[Riv39 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Riv39]

Re: Diesel - refuelling problem

Nifty, for what it's worth diesel is not like petrol and won't catch fire as easily. One of the advantages IMO of a diesel engine is the fact that the fuel is not highly flammable like petrol. It typically needs to be under high pressure (thus the very high compression motor) to ignite. In fact you can drop a match in an open container of diesel and it will just simply extinguish.

Can't explain this filling issue, my 150 appears fine although I have never let it get much under 1/2 tank. Not sure whether this makes a difference or not.

[darecki Sooky & Banned Find all posts View Profile Close darecki]

Re: Diesel - refuelling problem

Nifty, for what it's worth diesel is not like petrol and won't catch fire easily. One of the advantages IMO of a diesel engine is the fact that the fuel is not highly flammable. It typically needs to be under high pressure (thus the very high compression motor) to ignite. In fact you can drop a match in a container of diesel and it will just simply extinguish.

Can't explain this filling issue, my 150 appears fine although I have never let it get much under 1/2 tank. Not sure whether this makes a difference or not.

To be exact:

Diesel:
- ignition temp over 56C
- selfigitnion temp 270C
- explosion of vapours from 3-15%

Petrol (95):
- Ignition: 51C
- self igition 340C
- explosion of vapours 1.5 - 10.5%

If you spill fuel on a hot metal plate (say, your catalyst), diesel will selfignite 70C lower than petrol.

[Riv39 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Riv39]

Re: Diesel - refuelling problem

Point taken regarding spilling diesel on a very hot plate but petrol is still far more flammable than diesel. Petrol will easily ignite to a naked flame where as diesel will not. I still feel diesel is a safer fuel than petrol.

[Wrocko Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Wrocko]

Re: Diesel - refuelling problem

Sadly, I too have hit by the refuelling problem. The problem I found with my 150 D4D was near on the same as Nifty07 in that I was expecting to be putting in about 140l but only took about 85l. Didn't seem to be a problem with filling too fast, seemed to be exactly the opposite in that the pump seemed to be incredibly slow. After about 80l of filling that took about 10mins, the gurgling started to my surprise and would constantly foam up the filler neck. Took ages to put in another 5l but it got the better of me and I gave up, although I just wanted to see where exactly on the gauge the fuel level was to which it still only pointed to just under 3/4. Drove around on that tank to see if the problem surfaced on the next fill, used the same pump as the previous bad fill to which I found the pump was running back to a level it should and didn't encounter any problems, filled to the brim. Still, it is due for a 20K service so I will be mentioning it as a problem. Hope nobody else encounters the same problem and I hope mine was a one off.

[darecki Sooky & Banned Find all posts View Profile Close darecki]

Re: Diesel - refuelling problem

Point taken regarding spilling diesel on a very hot plate but petrol is still far more flammable than diesel. Petrol will easily ignite to a naked flame where as diesel will not. I still feel diesel is a safer fuel than petrol.

Not exactly. Iginition point is almost the same (5C higher for diesel in fact). Fumes explode in similar density. The only difference is boiling temerature. It is around 180C for diesel and can be as low, as 30C for petrol (or more likely around 45C). Petrol can easier igite in poorly ventilated space since creates a lot more fumes consuming less heat. It is simply more likely to have enough fumes of petrol. However, in case of fuel leak after a car crash it may be more likely to have fire caused by diesel spilled on exhaust pipe then in case of petrol in the same place.

[Nifty07 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nifty07]

Re: Diesel - refuelling problem

It was the neighbour who was concerned, they are aged and knew it was fuel (diesel) going past their home so gave them a call.

The risks of a flame from diesel was not my concern, it was the fact that it was leaking continuously out of the tank. It ended up being about 20 litres. No wonder the neighbour was concerned.

The good news is that Toyota removed both tanks, replaced the top seals and the leak is now fixed. Went to refuel expecting to put in 136 litres (Scanguage III is always accurate to within a litre) and at about 130 litres it blew back and made a puddle on the drive way about 1 meter oval shaped. Then filled it slowly for the remaining 6 litres as the foam was bubbling out the filler. This is much better than ever before but I have a bypass on the aux tank (T piece at in & out with a bypass hose).

I am told that when the main tank was removed they found the breather pipe kinked and gave me the impression it was not breathing. No wonder it was not filling properly.

I used the highflow and will try the normal pump next fill to see if it is fixed. I found that after they have the car for a day it filled for the first tankful but then the problem returns.

Seems to me that there are lots of bubbles blowing out of the filler pipe as can be seen when the foam comes up the spout. Does anyone else see this?

If anyone fills with a high flow can you post a description of what is normal. eg do you get foaming for the last 30 litres or no foam

Nifty

[dereki Member Find all posts View Profile Close dereki]

Re: Diesel - refuelling problem

I have a 120 but had a similar problem the other day. gurgle gurgle stop. Absolutely painful. Gave up after 30 liters. Never had the problem before.

I looked around under the car, then realized that the way the pipes are if the car was sloped forward it would not work so well... and the driveway at this servo had the car at a slight downhill incline... I went to my usual servo and no problems at all, and no problems since.

The downhill would have been only a few degrees, but enough to upset flow into the aux tank. Solution, park facing uphill, or find a servo with a flat driveway.

Hope this helps.

D