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  • DPF % recalculating

    To add a little more to the posts about the DPF % recalculating and reducing after going quickly up after a burn I have started logging.
    I attach a log of Time, RPM, Soot %, Differential Pressure, DPF temperature and 5th injector status. This although very interesting to me could be a cure for insomnia for others. At least it is only a 10 minute burst with readings taken every second. There are more logs!
    I am logging because I have covered a lot of Kms lately and the last three regens have always resulted in a big recalculation, one was 88 down to 44 which is identical to that reported by DaveC on the Fortuner forum. The recalculation happens mostly when starting a fresh journey with a cold engine.
    The second reason is that the service manager at my dealership says this does not happen.
    Although this log doesn't show it, the % fell to 40 then hovered around 40/42 for a long time before beginning to rise again. I do have logs for this but will spare you from seeing them unless you are as sad as me and actually want to. Next log will hopefully be before, during and after a regen.
    trackLog-2018-Feb-13_08-24-55.zip

  • #2
    FYI:
    Have driven my new 2018 Prado 150 GXL for a few months and 7000Kms. I have a Scan Gauge II with DPF% and EGT gauges programmed and have logged all full DPF burns and a couple of partial burns so far.

    At highway speeds (100-110Km/hr) it takes an average of 76Kms to get from 100% down to 6%, sometimes 4% and even 0% DPF.
    In the city (0-40-60-80Km/hr) it takes an average of 18Kms to get from 100% down to 6% DPF.
    The city scenario includes stop/start at lights, and parking at shopping centers or overnight at home in the middle of the regen. The ECU seems to remember that it has to finish a burn.

    I did a 200Km plus drive up the Googs Track north of Ceduna a couple of weeks ago. Speeds of 0-40Km over about 300 sand dunes and corrugated track. The vehicle did a DPF burn up the track between Googs Lake and Mt Finke. It took 15Kms to get from 100%-6% DPF.

    Ive watched it do a few partial burns (78%-68%, 74%-72%, 48%-42%) usually at highway speeds.The partial burns are hard to spot tho.

    It will continue to do a burn whilst at stop lights. Idle RPMs will be up around 900 instead of around the usual 650rpm.

    The DPF% reading also seems to behave non-linearly. In the low %s it moves faster than in the high %s.
    Last edited by RPP; 24-05-2018, 09:14 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by RPP View Post
      FYI:
      Have driven my new 2018 Prado 150 GXL for a few months and 7000Kms. I have a Scan Gauge II with DPF% and EGT gauges programmed and have logged all full DPF burns and a couple of partial burns so far.

      At highway speeds (100-110Km/hr) it takes an average of 76Kms to get from 100% down to 6%, sometimes 4% and even 0% DPF.
      In the city (0-40-60-80Km/hr) it takes an average of 18Kms to get from 100% down to 6% DPF.
      The city scenario includes stop/start at lights, and parking at shopping centers or overnight at home in the middle of the regen. The ECU seems to remember that it has to finish a burn.

      I did a 200Km plus drive up the Googs Track north of Ceduna a couple of weeks ago. Speeds of 0-40Km over about 300 sand dunes and corrugated track. The vehicle did a DPF burn up the track between Googs Lake and Mt Finke. It took 15Kms to get from 100%-6% DPF.

      Ive watched it do a few partial burns (78%-68%, 74%-72%, 48%-42%) usually at highway speeds.The partial burns are hard to spot tho.

      It will continue to do a burn whilst at stop lights. Idle RPMs will be up around 900 instead of around the usual 650rpm.

      The DPF% reading also seems to behave non-linearly. In the low %s it moves faster than in the high %s.
      Hi RPP - why are they hard to spot? - do you think these might be a passive regeneration with/without the 5th injector?
      Cheers
      Micheal.

      2008 GXL D4D Auto. GOING... GOING... GONE
      2015 GXL 1GD Auto. And it begins again...

      Comment


      • #4
        The reason I posted this was because I don't think it is a partial burn, I don't think it is a burn at all just a recalculation. I say this because when the % is falling there are no other parameters changing, if it were "burning" the exhaust temperature sensors would show an increase, there are three of them and they don't change. During a "proper" regeneration the timing and fuel injected changes and the 5th injector intermittently operates, none of this happens with what I would call a recalculation.
        I have noticed the same behaviour about the % rising non linearly, if you mean rising that is. After a regen it moves quickly up then seems to "recalculate" and fall, only to then rise more steadily and slowly to 100% It would be nice to know why !!

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        • #5
          Howdy,
          u are right, partial burn is a misnomer.
          I think they were passive regens, i did not see any noticeable delta in temperatures. However I was at highway speeds anyway.
          They are hard to spot because you have to be watching the Scan Gauge like a hawk just to see when they occur or u will miss them.

          The non linearity seems to be on the way up and down.

          There are quite a few temperature gauges I need to see to analyse the matter.
          And Scan Gauge II is a bit limiting, it lets u see only 4 gauges at a time.
          I'm contemplating an UltraGauge MX - which will let me see 8 gauges at a time.

          Standby...

          Comment


          • #6
            I must admit that I prefer torque pro as it is easier to see on my android head unit and can be made to monitor much more with different methods of display.
            Toyota's techstream is probably the best if of course you have a copy and don't mind the trouble of having a laptop running! This allows you to take what Toyota call screenshots which can be set to record any parameters you are interested in or indeed everything at once. This can then be replayed and graphs made etc which is really helpful although it still doesn't explain why this recalculation seems to happen. I hadn't taken a record with Techstream before the ECU update which was DPF related so I don't know whether it happened or not before the mod.
            Unfortunately I am yet to be convinced that there is any "passive" regeneration occurring (ever) as I have not seen anything else change apart from the soot % falling back. This makes me think that the ECU is recalculating the % but I have no idea on what this is based. I am hoping someone will tell us.

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            • #7
              Canít see it being capable of passive Regan the exhaust temps donít get high enough

              this is all due to the engine design lowered compression to reduce Noxs = lower exhaust temps

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              • #8
                Unfortunately Torque doesn't run on IOS, but either-way, I prefer my phone to be a phone (and an MP3 player). I'd rather it not be a Swiss Army pocket knife of such Apps.
                Techstream is a little pricey to rent, altho' earlier versions seem to be cheap on Ebay and come with the OBD-USB connector.
                Any recommendations gratefully appreciated here.

                I need a dedicated display of OBD Gauges permanently mounted in the Prado that can display the DPF%, all Temps (EGT, DPF, ATF1,2,3, and a few other items).
                I have a TPMS, its great on the tracks.
                I'm hatching a plan to measure shocker temps on the run also.

                When I logged the partial/passive regens(78%-68%), and was paying attention, the EGT was over 400C. I was doing ~110Km/hr up-hill and down-dale.


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                • #9
                  I can shed some light on this topic. The "passive regen" you refer to is definitely a recalculation. I have run Techstream and monitored all parameters. What happens normally is the percentage full increases relatively linearly based on fuel usage and km travelled. When the recalculation occurs you'll start at the lower end percentage of around 6% just after a burn and the percentage full will increase almost in line with the km you are doing. Percentage full will be for example at 66% and only 66 to 70km has been done when normally at 150km it would be approx 50% so really it should only be at about 25%. Another tell tale sign that its a recalculation is that if you park the car after a short period of say 50km after a burn the percentage full is say about 50%. Let the car cool down for 24hrs and then when you restart the percentage full has changed to a much lower level.

                  2016 2.8l 6spd Auto Prado Crystal Pearl VX, Dual Battery, Pro Racks, Towbar.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RPP View Post
                    FYI:
                    Have driven my new 2018 Prado 150 GXL for a few months and 7000Kms. I have a Scan Gauge II with DPF% and EGT gauges programmed and have logged all full DPF burns and a couple of partial burns so far.

                    At highway speeds (100-110Km/hr) it takes an average of 76Kms to get from 100% down to 6%, sometimes 4% and even 0% DPF.
                    In the city (0-40-60-80Km/hr) it takes an average of 18Kms to get from 100% down to 6% DPF.
                    The city scenario includes stop/start at lights, and parking at shopping centers or overnight at home in the middle of the regen. The ECU seems to remember that it has to finish a burn.

                    I did a 200Km plus drive up the Googs Track north of Ceduna a couple of weeks ago. Speeds of 0-40Km over about 300 sand dunes and corrugated track. The vehicle did a DPF burn up the track between Googs Lake and Mt Finke. It took 15Kms to get from 100%-6% DPF.

                    Ive watched it do a few partial burns (78%-68%, 74%-72%, 48%-42%) usually at highway speeds.The partial burns are hard to spot tho.

                    It will continue to do a burn whilst at stop lights. Idle RPMs will be up around 900 instead of around the usual 650rpm.

                    The DPF% reading also seems to behave non-linearly. In the low %s it moves faster than in the high %s.

                    The smaller ones ones would not be burns just natural regen from the heat of the car, the burns that happen around town at the slower speed are the real burns would be the real burns that take it back to zero.

                    out of interest did the scan gauge come with DPF option? Our did u have to program something.
                    [b]Rob[/b]

                    [b]2016 Toyota Hilux SR5 D4D Auto Company Cruiser... [/b].
                    [url=http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?23866-Hutch-s-2012-150-GXL-V6-petrol-Auto]Hutch's 2012 Build up[/url]
                    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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                    • #11
                      Iíve never seen my ScanGauge come back to 0%..... the closest Iíve seen is anywhere between 4-8%. These are varied from around town to highway driving....

                      ive not commanded a burn via the ScanGauge as yet.... but I will be interested to see if they aloe me to place a manual button into my 2018 VX (as they seem to be installed from June builds onwards).

                      The service bloke said they would not be surprised if there was ECU update (again) to increase the temps up a little more (discussion in May).

                      i see my temps get up around 400 regularly when driving ... but I am 99% sure this is to do with the normal driving... not partial burns as the DP% does not reduce at those temps (as seen on my SG)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the general consensus about temperature needed to regenerate the (Toyota) DPF was above 500C
                        However Wikipedia (which of course could be wrong) says this:
                        "Diesel particulate matter burns when temperatures above 600 degrees Celsius are attained. This temperature can be reduced to somewhere in the range of 350 to 450 degrees Celsius by use of a fuel borne catalyst. The actual temperature of soot burn-out will depend on the chemistry employed."
                        I think that there is a catalyst in front of our DPF but I don't understand what a "fuel borne" one is? Unless they are talking about adblue which our Euro 5 vehicles don't have.
                        I am very interested in this manual button theory, will there or wont there be one, and also if there really is another ECU update. If there is at least several of us are now monitoring present behaviour so we should be able to see what the "update" does. You can bet that Toyota dealers wont know!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Scangauge II X doesn't come with DPF gauges by default. See posts on 'Forcing a DPF regen with OBD tools' on this site for a good discussion on the OBD codes you need to program the SGII. See also 'Scangauge II X for 6 Speed Auto 1GD Prado' for more discussion on DPF% and Temp gauges. There are a few different temp sensors (just like in the transmission system) so I'm not sure we are all keyed into the same sensor reading. I'm monitoring the Exhaust Gas Temp just after the turbo - I think.

                          And yes, over about 7000Kms, I have seen the DPF% reading hit 0% twice, and 4% twice, both at highway speeds.

                          I've seen a current model LC 200 with a manual DPF burn button in the showroom (I think the LC200s have 2xDPFs). I would like to see one in the Prado also.

                          I'd like to have Techstream live (on my Windows Surface Pro), however, like workshop manuals, its hard the get from Toyota.
                          I've ordered an Utragauge MX so that I can have 8 gauges displayed at a time. Standby....

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                          • #14
                            The design is totally different, the 200 can passive regen and does not force burn on a schedule like the prado.

                            And yes they have 2 DPFs one on each side of the V

                            Currently trending, people obsessing with what there DPF is doing, Toyota have an issue with the 1GD, watching it or driving to suit wonít help, best just drive it and when it fails take it back, and I do mean when not if ....

                            they will fix the issue too many on the road smoking away.......
                            Last edited by Rockhop; Yesterday, 09:16 PM.

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                            • #15
                              I would describe my interest as fascination rather than obsession, being a cynical person I think that Toyota will do all they can to keep the issue from becoming too well known about and spend as little as possible to fix the issue. That is if they have worked out what is causing the problem which I doubt. This for me is the real curiosity, why does the 2.8 behave like this when other engines don't?
                              My Prado is laid up for six months while I am in the UK, I have searched and asked here if anyone has encountered any problems but so far drawn a blank. So what is the difference between the Australian and European vehicles? apart from Euro 5/6 and the fact there are many more manual versions here.
                              The Prado was my first Toyota and I must admit that I was surprised to have it tick over at 1200 rpm (manual) every 300 Kms or so. My poor opinion of the dealer was reinforced when they didn't seem to be sure why this was happening back in 2015. Then the ECU update was carried out, I asked what this did and received the reply that it "changes the parameters of the burn" my questions as to how it changes the burn went unanswered. I have read posts on here that when dealers investigate an issue they take a "snapshot" from Techstream which they send to Toyota who diagnose then send instructions as to what to do to fix the problem. This seems to keep Toyota's own staff in the dark let alone their customers.

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