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Oils Ain't Oils

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  • Oils Ain't Oils

    OK, just to put something out there that I have discovered recently which has me screwed over and I am hoping others don't get in the same boat.

    I've serviced my car since new from a reputable diesel mechanic - think of one in NSW and you're likely going to know them. Regardless, they utilise CJ-4 spec (US version of low sulphur/ DPF friendly oil) with 15W-40 oil. The viscosity suits where I go, and is within spec according to the manual... but apparently not.

    What a lot of people do not realise (including me, and it looks like my mechanics) is that the Oil has ANOTHER rating attached to it - a C-# rating for sulphur content. There's a PDF here https://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets...ngine_Oils.pdf with all the details. You may be bored to know that no CJ-4 Spec oil has a specification less than C3 (<0.8% sulphur) - which is what the VAST majority (VW, Ford etc) stipulate in their DPF oils.

    Not Toyota. They require C2 or better (<0.8% and lower Viscosity HTHS @ 150 ̊Crating). Consequently, Toyota have claimed I have used the wrong oil since day dot in the car, which in turn as rendered the warranty us the proverbial creek. Awesome isn't it? Not too much of a worry for me anymore - it was the last straw and I have now sold it. But having been on here regularly in the past two years or so, I have never come across this aspect of oils (plenty on the viscosity rating) until Toyota told me I was using the wrong oil (using C3, not C2).

    So there you go. If you use aftermarket oil - from mineral to synthetic - have a look at your C# rating to ensure it's C2 or better. Else, hide the fact it's not and don't offer work receipts provided by your local trusted mechanic as they'll investigate more into that side of things than investigating on how to fix your car. And for the squealing issues (on another thread) yes, there is a problem and no, it's not related to the oil used (will post when I get the definitive answer from Toyota).

  • #2
    Wow thanks for posting, unfortunately it confirms what a cynical old bugger like me suspects that they put more effort into avoiding their responsibilities than fault finding.
    With my Prado nearing the end of it's warranted period I have asked the dealer to write down exactly what oil they have used and will continue to use the same once the capped servicing ends and I do it myself for a fraction of the cost. I have also been so careful not to let the service dates overrun by even a day, don't want to give TMCA any chance of sidestepping their guarantee.
    What vehicle have you bought a replacement for the Prado? I doubt that you have bought another Toyota!

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    • #3
      Thanks for the heads up CAMJAM and its a bloody shame it was something that someone had to learn the hard way so that it could become common knowledge on the forum.

      That said the reputable mechanic only had to check the oil recommendation in the handbook (for my 2016 model at least) to find the very clear warning that using other than C2 oil may damage the DPF.

      Interestingly though oil manufacturers may not have got the memo - just checked the oil recommended for our 2.8l Prado's by the Nulon online guide and sure enough one was a C2 and one was a C3!



      2016 Prado GX 2.8L Auto (The third tourer)
      Y61 becomes Y62, R51 becomes R52. Nissan what are you smoking?
      2013 Patrol GU 3.0L Auto (The second tourer)
      2010 Patrol GU 3.0L Auto (The first tourer)
      1991 Patrol GU 4.2 Auto (The training wheels)

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      • #4


        2.8 GD Prado Oil SpecificationClick image for larger version  Name:	Oil Grade.JPG Views:	1 Size:	30.3 KB ID:	734947
        Last edited by brogers; 15-04-2018, 11:07 PM.
        SE Qld: GX 150GD Auto, (Feb'16 build): TJM T15 steel b bar, 9,500lb TORQ winch, TJM s steps, Rhino Pioneer Platform (42102B 1928X1236mm), front recovery points, Wynnum towbar, P3 brake controller, TNN Underbody guards, UHF, TREKtable & LED striplight, Custom Fridge & Drawers, Waeco CFX50, 9inch illuminator 160W LED spots, 40mm lifted Dobinson Suspension (Zordo's), ScanguageII, 30 Sec Wing Awning

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        • #5
          The details of the oil specification was one of the first things I did when I picked up my 2.8 GD Prado in 2016...and then I phoned some technical advisers at major oil companies...when the 2.8 Prado was first released, there was almost no other supplier of a C2 Grade oil other than oil that was sold at the dealers under the Toyota label. There are now a few suppliers of ACEA C2 oil now, and at least one other oil consultant indicated that ACEA C3 oil would also be suitable, but also strongly advised NOT to use C3 Grade oil to be safe while the car was under warranty...as Toyota is very clear that ACEA C2 grade engine oil is the required grade of engine oil for the GD Prado...as noted in the Owners Manual.
          SE Qld: GX 150GD Auto, (Feb'16 build): TJM T15 steel b bar, 9,500lb TORQ winch, TJM s steps, Rhino Pioneer Platform (42102B 1928X1236mm), front recovery points, Wynnum towbar, P3 brake controller, TNN Underbody guards, UHF, TREKtable & LED striplight, Custom Fridge & Drawers, Waeco CFX50, 9inch illuminator 160W LED spots, 40mm lifted Dobinson Suspension (Zordo's), ScanguageII, 30 Sec Wing Awning

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          • #6
            so just to be clear - use of the wrong ( sulphur ) grade of oil wouldnt damage the engine itself would it ? maybe damage the DPF but not the engine mechanically?

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            • #7
              C3 has the same chemical limits at C2, C2 just has a lower HTHS for better fuel economy and possibly less wear protection. A number of manufacturers offer oil that is both C2 and C3.
              Last edited by gxl_d4d; 16-04-2018, 04:14 PM.
              2008 GXL D4D + Option Pack 1, Safari snorkel, factory alloy bar, dual battery system, Lovells TFR-118/TRR119 Springs, Bilstein Shocks, Prodigy P3 brake controller, factory tow bar, Orac coupling.

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              • #8
                What about 3.0ltr engines? No DPF so not affected?
                D4D. How long will it last?

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                • #9
                  No issue on the 3.0L D4D. I've been using CJ4 for years with no issue.
                  2008 GXL D4D + Option Pack 1, Safari snorkel, factory alloy bar, dual battery system, Lovells TFR-118/TRR119 Springs, Bilstein Shocks, Prodigy P3 brake controller, factory tow bar, Orac coupling.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gxl_d4d View Post
                    No issue on the 3.0L D4D. I've been using CJ4 for years with no issue.
                    Thanks, I just check the Toyota book, it mentions b1, Castrol Edge is A3/B4? Now what impact is this going to cause?
                    D4D. How long will it last?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JohnLynn View Post
                      What vehicle have you bought a replacement for the Prado? I doubt that you have bought another Toyota!
                      Ha ha! True that. Firstly, I decided to go Petrol, but in a 4WD that would do the touring I need. That cancelled out about 95% of vehicles I could have, as I needed 6 seats as a minimum capable of Flinders, McDonnell Ranges, Tassie, Kakadu and Litchfield NP's (not cape York - I hate mozzies). So it left the LC200 Petrol, the Patrol Y62 or the Land Rover Disco5 in petrol. The latter was crossed off early - I think it looks like the screaming Eagle muppet off The Muppets from the rear. The LC200 came down to $92K drive away - or the Y62 for 70K drive away. Both with 8 seats, both fully capable. The LC200 averages around 13.5/L per 100km's for the drive I do, whereas the Y62 offers around 16L/ 100km. The maths and the saving of $22K for something that has 300kW versus 200kW and a similar amount of Torque made it a no brainer. People knock the Petrol in the Y62, but it's only ever for fuel economy which for me would be over 180,000km's for me to turn it into a reasonable price. And yet the Y62 comes with far more stuff than a GXL (it's VX minimum Spec), has no Turbo's that blow, has no injectors that need replacing, has no DPF that causes issues, and can roll with a 290L long range tank with a Kaymar Bar fitted (ordered!). The benefit of a Diesel for me is the range - but with 290L for those 3 - 4 times a year, I will be able to nail what I want, when I want it (think of the Frequent Flyer Points!!!!).

                      Is it perfect - nup. If I could, I'd get a Petrol V6 Prado. Love everything about this car so far, other than a couple of issues that are diesel drive train related. But they stopped that last October dammit. I've been on forums over the past couple of months and the Y62 has some issues - not as many as the LC200 mind you - but all cars do. They also have a dodgey SatNav John that you can't update! But there's a huge aftermarket spare part world out there for them which is great. And they have 280mm ground clearance from day dot so I don't need a lift - and they tow 3500kg, and most importantly for me have a GVM of 750kg + (like the Prado) rather than 610Kg like the LC200 series.

                      What I will say is that the DPF issue appears solved on the Prado - albeit by an inefficient manner (burning every 300km or so). If you go on LC200 forums, our Prado's just simply have an outstanding level of reliability compared to them! I Like I say - I am happy to spend up to 90+K on the next car (hence looked at LC200) but I would buy a Petrol Prado over a LC200 or the Y62 any day of the week - love it! But I guess mine was built on a Friday evening and serviced by well-intentioned but not too fussy mechanics. You get that in any car... Here's hoping the Patrol won't be one of them and will be as reliable as my Volvo's have been in the past!

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