Injector and Injector Pump Failure less than 12mths old

[Hoges Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Hoges]

Re: Injector and Injector Pump Failure less than 12mths old

I averaged 1,200ks/week in the 150 I drive (drove), and this was serviced by the same Toyota dealer by the handbook; every 10,000ks. As mentioned, Caltex fuel was used because I have a Star Card. Most of the time I was using their Premium diesel because that's what was available.

This issue is not mine to address, that belongs to the fleet manager, but it does effect me due to the hassles involved in breaking down on the side of the road, having to arrange a tow and hire car to get home, arranging another vehicle with the correct equipment for my job etc, not to mention the work downtime...the list is endless. All the while scratching my head and wondering why a vehicle I took the time to look after has let me down 11 months after it was delivered!

The postings regarding the fuel quality etc are interesting, and I'll pass them onto my fleet mgr.

Unfortunately, this isn't my agencies first issue with Toyota regarding warranty claims not being accepted (different issues to this one on other Prado's and Hilux's, and not withstanding if this one is Toyota's problem or not). Needless to say, my order for a Hilux (same engine as Prado) was canceled and a Triton is on its way. Whether the Triton is better or not in the long run, who knows, but there are some in our fleet and there has been no issues. Once bitten.....

Incidentally, I am in a 'loan' Triton at the moment and am quite happy with it. I'm in the process of arranging the configuration of canopy, drawers, roof bars, fridge, other equipment etc etc and this has taken some of the 'sting' out of the pain I felt the day the 150 died........

[Hoges Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Hoges]

Re: Injector and Injector Pump Failure less than 12mths old

So, the 150 still sits in a Toyota workshop, un-repaired. However, things are moving along (slowly)...but who knows in what direction.

Toyota have sent the injectors and injector pump to Denso (the manufacturer), for assessment. Have yet to hear back from Toyota.

I'll keep you posted.

[Hoges Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Hoges]

Re: Injector and Injector Pump Failure less than 12mths old

OK, here's the latest.

The Dealer Principal where the Prado sits, called me and said that Denso had completed their inspection, and their findings were, wait for it...INCONCLUSIVE. Whatever that means? What does it mean? It means Toyota said Denso is providing the replacement parts, and Toyota will be putting the vehicle back together and I can pick it up sometime next week, no charge.

Common rail diesels and our lower standard of fuel quality makes me think this will become a more prevalent issue in the future. Anyone know of a good aftermarket fuel filter that won't effect warranty?????????

This outcome has potential ramifications for other Prado drivers. Keep my experience in your memory bank in case you have a similar situation occur to you. For your sake, I hope you don't. I'll provide an update after I pick it up.

[Guest Close max_rocktansky]

Re: Injector and Injector Pump Failure less than 12mths old

Hoges, which fleet mAnageR do u use ?

[Hoges Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Hoges]

Re: Injector and Injector Pump Failure less than 12mths old

Thanks for the info re: filters. I'll be sure to pass that one on.

And now for the latest. I hope you're all ready because this may just be the icing on the cake....

Toyota service called me yesterday a'noon. 'Hi, all back together but no compression on cylinder #3' (coincidently the same one as the alleged faulty injector. Can you see where this is going?) 'We have to get permission from Tojo H/O to lift the head. Just waiting to hear from them. Toyota will cover this under warranty. We'll let you know.'

So much for picking the vehicle up this week.

I call today for an update....

Toy - The guys at the workshop discovered that the piston on #3 was cracked. It must have been a fault in the casting or something. It's nothing we've seen before. The bore was slightly scored, going to see if it will hone out.
Me - If it does, how long?
Toy - No slug in the country, gotta come from Japan. If the cylinder is too damaged, it'll need a new block and 4 pistons. These are in the country.
Me (to myself You can't get one piston but can get 4 with a block. I hope the thing is cracked.) Ok, so we're looking late next week or the week after.
Toy - Late next week at the earliest.

So back to waiting. However, I'm starting to think that this thing was mis-diagnosed from the beginning. Maybe the piston did crack and fail, leading to no compression on #3. It was assumed that it was dirty fuel which caused an injector to fail, hence the runaround with the injectors and pump. As the mechanic said to me, the 'dirt' in the fuel system is consistent with a vehicle of this mileage. No amount of 'dirty' fuel would cause the piston to crack.

I don't know enough about the computers in these things and how accurately they can tell the guys what's wrong. But I'm beginning to suspect the cracked piston was the problem all along.

[Riv39 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Riv39]

Re: Injector and Injector Pump Failure less than 12mths old

Sounds plausable to me. I hope for your sake that they do change the block. Mind you, under the circumstances, I think I would want a whole new engine after all it's not as if you have done 100,000km's.

Good luck, and keep us informed...

[Riv39 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Riv39]

Re: Injector and Injector Pump Failure less than 12mths old

On the issue of the cracked piston, I wonder whether this is also linked to low cetane as this would lead to greater pre-ignition and place the pistons under more stress, correct?

[Hoges Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Hoges]

Re: Injector and Injector Pump Failure less than 12mths old

Update.

The block and pistons (plus bearings where required etc) are being replaced by Toyota under warranty. Apparently the parts are due tomorrow and I've been told I can expect a call early next week (Thursday is my guess).

The GM of the dealer has been keeping me in touch, although I'm disappointed it has taken so long, remember this happened on Jan 9th!

I'm over this relationship with this Prado, as a gangster once said, 'you're dead to me'. It's like when a g/f is a drag and you're over it and just going through the motions and something else catches your eye. That something else is the Triton, due in about 2 weeks.

After I pick up the Prado, it will have my work gear removed and it will be sent straight to the auction house (anyone after a 150 GLX with a new block and slugs?). I'll post an update of the wash up from the dealer and (hopefully) the guys who actually worked on the vehicle. Maybe we'll get closer to the real truth of what happened.

[William Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close William]

Re: Injector and Injector Pump Failure less than 12mths old

Hi Hoges,
Thanks for posting up the ordeal. I'm sure there's a lot we can learn from it. A shame that it happened to you, but at least it worked out in the end. Sucks that you have to part with the Prado, but I know how you must feel driving around a tainted vehicle. It just ain't tonka tuff anymore.

Cheers

[Riv39 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Riv39]

Re: Injector and Injector Pump Failure less than 12mths old

Ditto Hoges, VERY interesed to hear what Toyota reckons caused the piston to crack.

[skip73 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close skip73]

My worry is that I have a faulty fuel injector and pump at 18,000 kms with the engine rattling more than usual. Toyota have elimated contaminated fuel and put it down to a defective part. The application for the warranty replacement is currently underway with a wait of up to 14 days before they can get the parts replaced. I hope it doesn't turn into an epic saga like the one outlined above.

I have also found the the 150 series manual (section 6.1 page 604) stating that: you must only use diesel fuel with a cetane number of 48 or higher

[Riv39 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Riv39]

My worry is that I have a faulty fuel injector and pump at 18,000 kms with the engine rattling more than usual. Toyota have elimated contaminated fuel and put it down to a defective part. The application for the warranty replacement is currently underway with a wait of up to 14 days before they can get the parts replaced. I hope it doesn't turn into an epic saga like the one outlined above.

I have also found the the 150 series manual (section 6.1 page 604) stating that: you must only use diesel fuel with a cetane number of 48 or higher

What brand fuel have you been using? I only use BP now as they warrant their fuel. All diesel sold in Aus must be minimum 46 cetane.

[skip73 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close skip73]

What brand fuel have you been using? I only use BP now as they warrant their fuel. All diesel sold in Aus must be minimum 46 cetane.

Generally it's been Caltex Vortex with the occasional Shell V-Power. I've started using BP Ultimate after reading about it's higher cetane level.

I've taken the car to Toyota and they've replaced the injector pump and I have cycled through a new tank of Diesel (Shell) and it's running alot better except for a subtle ringing noise. I suspect this due to the engine loosening up after towing a trailer for 1500kms. The car is going back today for a checkup now that they have their full suite of mechanics back after the holidays. Hopefully everything's OK.

[Riv39 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Riv39]

Generally it's been Caltex Vortex with the occasional Shell V-Power. I've started using BP Ultimate after reading about it's higher cetane level.

I've taken the car to Toyota and they've replaced the injector pump and I have cycled through a new tank of Diesel (Shell) and it's running alot better except for a subtle ringing noise. I suspect this due to the engine loosening up after towing a trailer for 1500kms. The car is going back today for a checkup now that they have their full suite of mechanics back after the holidays. Hopefully everything's OK.

I'm informed that BP Ultimate is guaranteed to be 50+ cetane but unfortunately it's not available in Sydney until late this year and then in very limited areas. I switched from Caltex Vortex to BP after about 10000km and have done a furthre 5000 since with no problem thus far.

[skip73 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close skip73]

I'm informed that BP Ultimate is guaranteed to be 50+ cetane but unfortunately it's not available in Sydney until late this year and then in very limited areas. I switched from Caltex Vortex to BP after about 10000km and have done a furthre 5000 since with no problem thus far.

I got the car back today. Everything seems to be running well. In the end, all they replaced was the primer pump (not the injector pump) and the fuel filter. The Toyota mechanic suggested that, in his experience, to use BP and Mobile where possible.