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  • Fixing the 1500rpm drone, vibration and rattles

    I know that there are a lot of threads on this topic but I'd like to provide a couple of solutions that are known to work (Hopefully the mods don't close it)

    First I must say that after spending several months chasing this problem, including several trips to my local dealer, I'm amazed, happy and annoyed. Amazed at how simple the solution is, happy that the resonance is gone and annoyed that Toyota haven't fixed this simple problem in 3 years.

    Before the solutions, some background. I've been chasing this problem because of some very loud, intermittent and annoying rattles that come and go from the dash area of my car. I also didn't like the drone at 1500rpm. After much stuffing around I couldn't find the rattles so I thought I'd have a crack at the 1500rpm vibration that causes the rattle.

    End result, no more 1500rpm drone or vibration and hence no rattles.......touch wood

    What causes the drone and vibration at 1500rpm, a resonance in the air intake system. As my local dealer told me this is a issue known by Toyota. What is resonance? Wikipedia says: "In physics, resonance is the tendency of a system to oscillate at a greater amplitude at some frequencies than at others. These are known as the system's resonant frequencies (or resonance frequencies). At these frequencies, even small periodic driving forces can produce large amplitude oscillations, because the system stores vibrational energy". In other words resonance amplifies a small input into a large output. It occurs in all kinds of ways and has even been known to cause airplanes to crash.

    In the Prado the resonance occurs in the air intake chamber, which happens to be the area inside the right hand front guard. Resonance can be fixed by changing the properties of the space, such as changing the shape, volume or materials.

    So what are the solutions to the Prado 1500rpm drone, resonance and vibration?

    A. Fit a snorkel, this changes the size of the chamber and changes the resonant frequency. Unfortunately for me because of a decree by "the ministry of war", a snorkel is not an option.

    B. Change the characteristics of the air intake chamber. There are probably lots of ways to do this, I did it using some high density acoustic foam, some Dynamat ($40) and 10 plastic retaining clips (Toyota $1.80 each). The job took me about 90 minutes, mainly because the non-reusable plastic clips that hold the plastic mudguard liner in place are not easy to get out. Make sure you buy 10 replacement clips. And yes I think Toyota should pay to do this, but anyway.

    Step 1: remove the plastic mudguard liner, 10 clips and about 4 screws



    Step 2: install the Dynamat to the inside of the guard. Below is a photo looking up into the guard before sticking on the Dynamat



    Dynamat is self-adhesive; I stuck it on and then cut it to suit. I covered the whole inside of the guard. (The brown paper is the backing that you peel off to stick the Dynamat to the guard, it is very sticky!)



    Step 3: the photo isn't very clear, but I jammed a piece of high density foam under the guard where it meets the A pillar. You can reach this from inside the guard to push it up, with the plastic mudguard liner removed. This is where Toyota cut the plastic tab and move the fender slightly away from the body.



    Step 4: stick left over Dynamat in the cavity and onto the back of the plastic mudguard liner.

    Step 5: I jammed some pieces of the acoustic foam into various spots under the guard and glued a piece to the top of the plastic mudguard liner.

    So now the 1500rpm drone is unnoticeable, the vibration is nearly gone, and the rattle is pretty well gone, hopefully for good this time. More annoying is that my car wouldn't have developed the rattle if Toyota had fixed the resonance in the first place.

    Hope this helps others struggling with this problem.
    krypto
    Avid PP Poster!
    Last edited by krypto; 06-12-2011, 03:09 PM.
    [B]Steve[/B]

    2010 Silver GXL Prado 150, D4D Auto, with a few non standard bits

  • #2
    Nice one and good effort.
    What happens when the Dynamat gets wet and can't dry out?

    Comment


    • #3
      The Dynamat I used is aluminum foil backed by a tarry black sticky substance (the paper you see in the photo is the backing that you peel off) . I had it in the door of my last car for 6 years with no problems. They make a range of sound vibration reducing products, have a look here http://www.dynamat.com/technical_technical.html.

      I used Dynamat Extreme, and specs below.
      Appearance:
      Black butyl based core with 4 mil aluminum constraining layer, craft paper release liner
      Thickness: 0.067” (1.7mm)
      Mass:
      0.45lbs./ft.2 (2.20kg/m2)
      Acoustic Loss Factor @ Temperature (Using ASTM method E756 @ 200 Hz):
      0.081 @ +14˚F (-10˚C) 0.240 @ +32˚F (+0˚C) 0.257 @ +50˚F (+10˚C) 0.417 @ +68˚F (+20˚C) 0.259 @ +86˚F (+30˚C) 0.194 @ +104˚F (+40˚C) 0.140 @ +122˚F (+50˚C) 0.094 @ +140˚F (+60˚C)
      Temperature Range (Optimal Performance): 14°F to +140°F (-10°C to +60°C)
      Temperature Range (Resistance):
      -65°F to +300°F (-54°C to +149°C)
      Adhesive Peel Strength:
      42.6 lb./in. (74.8 N/cm) on cold steel
      Chemical Resistance:
      Resistant to water and mineral oils

      Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
      krypto
      Avid PP Poster!
      Last edited by krypto; 04-12-2011, 11:00 PM.
      [B]Steve[/B]

      2010 Silver GXL Prado 150, D4D Auto, with a few non standard bits

      Comment


      • #4
        3 days in and I'm amazed by the change. I got in the car tonight and it feels like a different engine, there's none of the rough vibration as the engine revs through the 1500rpm range. It's hard to believe such a simple change has made such a big difference.
        [B]Steve[/B]

        2010 Silver GXL Prado 150, D4D Auto, with a few non standard bits

        Comment


        • #5
          My dealer removed the piece of plastic/foam on the inside of the engine bay where the air cleaner connects to the guard. This has fixed the problem but I am not sure if sucking air from inside the engine bay instead of through the wheel arch area is a good idea. Any thoughts on this???

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Tezza222z View Post
            My dealer removed the piece of plastic/foam on the inside of the engine bay where the air cleaner connects to the guard. This has fixed the problem but I am not sure if sucking air from inside the engine bay instead of through the wheel arch area is a good idea. Any thoughts on this???
            Good to hear that this worked. The only real down side of getting air from inside the engine bay will be that it may be hotter, the D4D engine bay gets pretty hot and engines work best on cool air. Not sure if that is compensated by the inter cooler.

            I looked at this and removing the foam means that potentially the air cleaner intake nozzle can hit on the sheet metal, which is not such a good idea. Also not sure what this does to the resonance inside the guard which is the real problem.
            [B]Steve[/B]

            2010 Silver GXL Prado 150, D4D Auto, with a few non standard bits

            Comment


            • #7
              Steve,

              Good work re: your 'fix'. It's a crying shame that Toyota has not properly addressed the issue. I had the rubber insert replaced at the bottom of the RHS of the windscreen about 18 months ago and have not had any problems since. Hopefully your post may help others out.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by krypto View Post
                3 days in and I'm amazed by the change. I got in the car tonight and it feels like a different engine, there's none of the rough vibration as the engine revs through the 1500rpm range. It's hard to believe such a simple change has made such a big difference.
                Hi Krypto, and many thanks for posting this fix.

                I have the same vibration problem at 1300rpm, that I can hear distinctively when I'm driving, and it has been spoiling my pleasure of cruising for the past 2 years. You try to not take notice of it and you can't help hearing it.

                Last summer, I unplugged the air intake tube where it connects to the air filter box, by slipping my hand behind mudguard from above the front right hand side wheel (there is a slight width of that guard you can bend back enough)... It dimished the vibration quite a bit... But it never lasts, it comes back and I get a rattling noise as well. I have also tried only just slightly unplugging it, by giving it an angle... this has worked too, but again only temporary. I have also firmly tightened the 4 bolts on the bottom of the air filter box, as I was wondering if that part might be vibrating (one person said he'd put some high density foam under the bottom of this box and screwed the air filter box on top, and that did the trick for him).

                After having read the 18 pages of the other thread, and this one with your fix, I am very pleased to see I'm not the only Land Cruiser owner with this problem, and that there are "simple" solutions. I am now ready for action !

                But before I order the 10 clips and take the mudguard off, I need to understand what is behind. Have you got a picture of that black plastic tube (the air intake thing) I have been adjusting without seeing and that is causing the vibration ? How do you take off the 10 existing clips to remove the mudguard ?

                I'd be very grateful to know and see this air intake, as I can't see it on the pictures you've posted, and I'd be reassured to do the job myself (I'm not at all a mechanic).

                Where is the vibration contact exactly ? Is that air intake tube vibrating against the car structure, or against the inside of the front right hand side wing/guard ? Against the mudguard ? Or is the vibration coming from the contact it makes with the area it plugs in to the air filter box ?

                Would it be an idea to wrap foam around that air intake tubing to stop it vibrating against whatever it is ? Or maybe just wedge a piece of foam between it and the car body ?

                I too think that Toyota should fix this for free as it is a default in the conception of the car, and the parts vibrating are probably wearing abnormally fast. And it is a worldwide problem ! I think most of you on this forum are in Australia, I'm in France and have the same problem too, on a KDJ120 Land Cruiser (year 2005).

                Has anyone managed to get this fix done for free by Toyota ? On a french forum, people have been talking about a Toyota internal note having been released on this fix, and I'm waiting for more details on this. I'll let you know.

                Many thanks for any more details on this, I'll be very grateful as this vibration is sooo annoying.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kdj120 View Post
                  Where is the vibration contact exactly ? Is that air intake tube vibrating against the car structure, or against the inside of the front right hand side wing/guard ? Against the mudguard ? Or is the vibration coming from the contact it makes with the area it plugs in to the air filter box ?

                  Would it be an idea to wrap foam around that air intake tubing to stop it vibrating against whatever it is ? Or maybe just wedge a piece of foam between it and the car body ?

                  I too think that Toyota should fix this for free as it is a default in the conception of the car, and the parts vibrating are probably wearing abnormally fast. And it is a worldwide problem ! I think most of you on this forum are in Australia, I'm in France and have the same problem too, on a KDJ120 Land Cruiser (year 2005).

                  Has anyone managed to get this fix done for free by Toyota ? On a french forum, people have been talking about a Toyota internal note having been released on this fix, and I'm waiting for more details on this. I'll let you know.

                  Many thanks for any more details on this, I'll be very grateful as this vibration is sooo annoying.
                  Hi KDJ120 I never found the source of the rattle, my fix reduces the air intake resonance that causes the vibration and the rattle.

                  When you remove the plastic mudguard you will be able to see the air intake. The second photo of my post is taken looking up understand the fender and the round plastic scoop at the top of the photo is the air intake scoop inside the fender. The Prado uses the space inside the fender as an air intake space and this is where the loud rumbling vibration is created.

                  I used pliers to pull out the plastic clips, and they require a lot of force to remove.

                  The air intake tube on my car already has a foam ring stopping it from vibrating against the body, if yours is missing one it may be causing the problem.


                  Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
                  krypto
                  Avid PP Poster!
                  Last edited by krypto; 08-01-2012, 11:40 AM.
                  [B]Steve[/B]

                  2010 Silver GXL Prado 150, D4D Auto, with a few non standard bits

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My 150 started rattling the other day and I have a snorkel fitted. I ended up finding the source, in my case it was one of the bolts that hold the air box to the vehicle. There are two that sit inside the air box underneath the filter. It wasn't really a loose bolt but more a worn bush that the bolt goes through. Tightening the bolt up more has fixed it in the short term but it will eventually come back. It's odd that a car with 25,000 Kay's on it already has worn bushings.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by krypto View Post
                      Hi KDJ120 I never found the source of the rattle, my fix reduces the air intake resonance that causes the vibration and the rattle.

                      When you remove the plastic mudguard you will be able to see the air intake. The second photo of my post is taken looking up understand the fender and the round plastic scoop at the top of the photo is the air intake scoop inside the fender. The Prado uses the space inside the fender as an air intake space and this is where the loud rumbling vibration is created.

                      I used pliers to pull out the plastic clips, and they require a lot of force to remove.

                      The air intake tube on my car already has a foam ring stopping it from vibrating against the body, if yours is missing one it may be causing the problem.


                      Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
                      Yes I can see a tiny bit of the round plastic scoop, but I was wondering how long was that and what shape. Have you got a pic of that By any chance ? How long is it ?

                      Are you talking about foam around the actual air intake tube ? Or just the bit where it connects (is there supposed to be some kind of foam washer or something ?)

                      The vibration I can hear really seems to come from bottom left of the windscreen, at first I thought it was the windscreen itself or something behind the dashboard in front of the passeneger seat. So I will be looking for the plastic tab bottom RHS of the windscreen, the one that people have been suggesting. Then again a picture would have been really helpful to identify the tab.

                      Of course it could be several things rattling there, And I totally understand your theory of resonance, and your way of changing the volume of the space in the fender, is a very clever way of treating the cause of it all...

                      Many thanks !

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My 150 D4D snorkel vibrates against the pillar at times . Is this the same issue ?
                        Cheers Ross

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by vk2ss55 View Post
                          My 150 D4D snorkel vibrates against the pillar at times . Is this the same issue ?
                          Cheers Ross
                          every time the vehicle is stationary, at idle in drive mine vibrates also.
                          2011 150series GXL

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi KDJ120,

                            1. I didn't take a picture of the scoop, it is a very short right angle bend
                            2. The foam is around the air intake where it passes through the chassis
                            3. The vibration sounds like its coming through the windscreen / dash
                            4. The little plastic tab that people are talking about is at the base of the A-pillar and touches on the fender
                            [B]Steve[/B]

                            2010 Silver GXL Prado 150, D4D Auto, with a few non standard bits

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by krypto View Post
                              Hi KDJ120,

                              1. I didn't take a picture of the scoop, it is a very short right angle bend
                              2. The foam is around the air intake where it passes through the chassis
                              3. The vibration sounds like its coming through the windscreen / dash
                              4. The little plastic tab that people are talking about is at the base of the A-pillar and touches on the fender
                              First of all thanks again for all your precious information, I really appreciate !

                              I have just spend an hour driving and stopping and wedging bits of foam here and there on all the suspicious loose bits in that area : under the tab at the base of the A-pillar, under the long plastic bit that's next to the tab and runs along the bottom of the windscreen, front bumper, bonnet, etc... But still the same amount of metallic sort of noise coming from the same area (bottom RHS of windscreen).

                              What is very confusing, is that, unlike before, now when I slightly or completely unplug the air intake from where it connects to the chassis, it makes absolutely no difference at all to the noise. Now before this used to work, and even though it never disappeared completely, there was some improvement...

                              If air intake unplugged from chassis, then no resonance in fender possible as the air isn't going though intake ?


                              There doesn't seem to be a bit of foam around the area where air intake plugs into chassis... But then again, unplugging the air intake should solve this, if the absence of this foam ring was an issue.

                              What I'm thinking is that I want to make sure the vibration is defo due to air intake resonance, before I go out and buy all the necessary to do your fix, or get Toyota to do it.

                              This is so confusing and frustrating not finding the answer... But what a great self-satisfaction if I manage to kill the noise myself ;-)

                              Thanks again if you have any advice on this...

                              Comment

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