2 inch Lift Kakadu - Losing Suspension Settings - Sport/Comfort

[Bawky Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bawky]

Manipulating the rear sensors. That make sense to me, but have not experimented with that.

I don't think adjusting the rear sensors to a different level to each other would be the right fix. It sounds to me like the lean force is there and rather than fixing it by what ever is causing the lean you would be introducing another different counteracting force. I thnik this may further changing the handling characteristics of the vehicle, and maybe would create a negative result in some situations. For example, turning left or right regarding body role?

I would be very interested to know what repressurising the KDSS system would achieve.

Our local Toyota dealer said that the oil for the KDSS system comes from Japan. Nice to know...lol. I think his point was they don't have any oil and don't mess with the KDSS system often, if at all. They have the machine, however they obviously recommend not changing the suspension on such a technological system.

My suspension is standard and my measurements 2 weeks after taking delivery were the same or within 2mm.

Now at 8 weeks old, with half a tank of diesel and the height setting on N the measurements are:

Front L 767 R 767 Equal

Rear L 792 R 792 Equal

Completely level sideways and the rear is sitting 25mm higher than the front.

[fido666 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close fido666]

My suspension is standard and my measurements 2 weeks after taking delivery were the same or within 2mm.

But you don't have a bullbar or winch up front right? IIRC the lean starts when you add the extra weight up front. In my case the bar was on the Kaka when I bought it so I don't know if it was ever truly level from the factory.

Toyota's own front springs are different heights so using aftermarket springs that employ the same principle but add some extra height shouldn't be an issue if you don't go overboard.

Sensors well I'm not the expert but having a 35mm lean from one side to the other can't be great either, I'm happier with only 20mm. In my case sensors were tweaked to add height not just to correct the rear lean. Perhaps Anthony will have further input.

My Kaka handles better now than before the mods, no more rolling into corners and diving under brakes.

[fido666 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close fido666]

Seems to me that those that have front springs only fitted just cannot get the lean fixed without trickery.. Perhaps a full spring/shock, rear airbags ripped out and replaced with all aftermarket jobbies may fix the lean 100%..but then of course you have no KDSS or auto height or extra height adjustment for the rear.

Steve changing the springs and/or shocks will not make you lose KDSS as that system controls the hydraulic sway bar not the shock valving. You would lose the sport/comfort setting from in the cabin if you change the TEMS shocks out though.

[Bawky Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bawky]

Thanks for your input. I agree, until no lean can be achieved then I will stay standard also. It sounds like you have been through a lot, good on you for trying so hard.

[fido666 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close fido666]

The lines going to the shocks control the valving.

[bfranzen Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bfranzen]

Guys - just a refresher of my experiences to date with one of my earlier posts.

putting a steel bull bar on will start the KDSS lean of -20mm to the drivers side. my logic is that if this occurs in standrad form then a spacer will not solve the issue as the factory spring is 20mm higher on the drivers side anyway. I added extra long lovell springs to gain a 45mm lift at the front retaining factory shocks all round....20mm lean remains. Only solution is to use Bilsten shocks all round specific to kakadu 150 which includes adjsutable clips on the shock which allows offset for the lean. I know this works because I recently had a mates kakadu done with the same and it has solved all the issues. Unfortunately not enough kak owners have gone down this route to formalise a known solution for this issue. In time more suppliers will produce multiple products that work for us. In the meantime go the Bilsteins. hope this helps.

Had the bilsteins/lovell combo on since Nov/Dec last year and love them. Bit firmer than stock on road but much more compliant off road. ride heights are unchanged since install at about 800mm all round.
when I load up the vehicle for a trip away the rear ends up lower than the front slightly but obvious to the naked eye. expect the same when I eventually tow a trailer. I have investigated the 2" replacement airbags from airbag man but have not done this yet. these will give me enough lift in the rear to load up and tow whilst keeping the nose down. on the KDSS lean issue, it come and goes to a max. of about 5mm towards the drivers side...depends on fuel load, slope of ground, park angle etc. 5mm however is not noticeable to the naked eye. have not braved the rear sensor trick as I feel this is only a short term solution...any gain in height doing the trick will reduce max. factory lift of bags on H setting. I use the H setting when off road so would prefer to have Max. lift then.

As with others I wish the KDSS issue was simpler but it is not. It is also difficult to find people who understand it because Toyota do not. Once I eventually replace the rear bags, it should be all sorted.

[fido666 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close fido666]

fifo do you know how that line thingy works? I know its a hydraulic sway bar but if I'm really honest I don't really have a good understanding of how it works. I know you get less roll and better handling but thats it.

The sway bars both front and rear are fixed on one side and have a hydraulic ram on the other. The hydraulic rams/cylinders control wheel articulation and the accumulators control ride smoothness over uneven surfaces. The fluids and electronics work together to give an overall smoother ride. There's some diagrams and explanation in the Prado eBrochure on the Toyota website, there's also some KDSS vids up on YouTube.

Part of the KDSS lean problem seems to be due to the way the fluid is distributed through the system. On one day you might have a lean on one wheel but measure again a few days later and it's on another one.

Sorry I can't explain it any better, had a surgical procedure today involving sedation and the brain is still a bit foggy. I'm off to bed, it's been a long day.

[Peterpilot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Peterpilot]

Spoke to Dobinsons today, for KDSS Prados they have unequal length front springs where the drivers' side front spring is 5mm longer than the left side AND unequal length rear springs where the drivers' side rear spring is 15mm longer than the left side to level out the lean.

I'm not sure if you can adapt that to the Kakadu rear airbag suspension, perhaps if you tried to set the drivers' side airbag 15mm higher than the left by using spacers under the right sensor bracket that are 5mm longer than the left. It may work, or the computer may sense that as an imbalance? It seems a worthwhile, simple and easily reversible experiment for someone with a Kakadu to try.

Also, before Dobinsons commence an installation they "release the pressure in the KDSS system" with the KDSS valve. I'm not sure where the valve is located, or even if this applies to the Prado or only to the KDSS Landcruisers?

[Peterpilot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Peterpilot]

ah..ok, for some reason i thought the TEMS shocks had fluid lines going to them..airlines perhaps? But if you swap the front TEMS shockies you do lose the auto level feature don't you?

Cheers
Steve

If the auto level function on the Kakadu is the same as my Grande it is separate to the TEMS system. Auto level is handled by the rear height sensors measuring the difference between the chassis and rear upper control arm distance. If the rear is too low, the potentiometer causes the compressor to run until the pre determined rear ride height is reached. In cabin, there is a Hi Lo Norm switch and an off switch.

TEMS is Toyota Electronic Modulated Suspension, in other words in cabin electronically adjustable shocks. This is controlled by a Comfort / Sport switch that adjusts how hard or soft the shock valving is. This is the system you lose with aftermarket shocks, not the rear auto height adjustment.

[fido666 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close fido666]

Sorry to hear that fido hope you feel better soon

I'm fine thanks Jason, just a bit sore.

Also, before Dobinsons commence an installation they "release the pressure in the KDSS system" with the KDSS valve. I'm not sure where the valve is located, or even if this applies to the Prado or only to the KDSS Landcruisers?

That was done with mine, the valve is located under a plate on the passenger side near the front wheel from memory.

ETA: A couple of KDSS vid links for you :-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLF6n3nMwww
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI40-YkUPDo

[Sydneydude Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sydneydude]

With my installation, the fitter opened the valve after fitting the springs. I'd be interested to know what difference it would make to open the valves before the install.

[Peterpilot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Peterpilot]

I'm not sure if you can adapt that to the Kakadu rear airbag suspension, perhaps if you tried to set the drivers' side airbag 15mm higher than the left by using spacers under the right sensor bracket that are 5mm longer than the left. It may work, or the computer may sense that as an imbalance? It seems a worthwhile, simple and easily reversible experiment for someone with a Kakadu to try.

Has anyone tried setting the Kakadu rear airbags at unequal lengths?

[fido666 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close fido666]

Has anyone tried setting the Kakadu rear airbags at unequal lengths?

In what way? If you mean by fitting different numbers of washers on each side then yes that was done with mine.

[Peterpilot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Peterpilot]

In what way? If you mean by fitting different numbers of washers on each side then yes that was done with mine.

Thanks Fido, yes. There should be about 5mm more washers or spacers under the drivers' side sensor bracket to lengthen the drivers' side airbag by 15mm. Unfortunately, if that is done as well as a 5mm longer front right spring and there is still a lean I'm fresh out of ideas

[Peterpilot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Peterpilot]

Has anyone tried The Airbagman 2" lift airbag replacement kit for the Kakadu? http://www.airbagman.com.au/AirbagApps.pdf