Track width GX and new wheels

[matt12]

I understand standards and police knowledge/ action towards off roaders has increased over recent years but fearing repercussions from a 10mm offset variance is beginning to split hairs.

I just need insurance and safety. I don't think the 'splitting hairs' argument sounds too good in court.

[Timbers77]

There seems to be a high level of concern Australia wide for regulations/ standards.
Surely if you are behaving and not driving a messy 4" plus lifted vehicle with tyres protruding out of guards you wouldn't have to worry?
I understand standards and police knowledge/ action towards off roaders has increased over recent years but fearing repercussions from a 10mm offset variance is beginning to split hairs.

[mjrandom]

Ok there was an update in Nov and Dec 2014 which seems to open the door and definately removes the past exclusions. Previously LS9/10 excluded vehicles equipped with ESC from any form of lift (effectively) unless the manufacturer or supplier of the components certified the ESC was unaffected, though if the total lift of tyres and suspension was less than 50mm there were no specific requirements.

Now G19.4 (Dec'14 update) states lifts up to 75mm (tyres and suspension) regardless of ESC are self certification though it does state "any person performing this type of modification must ensure the modified vehicle meets all the technical requirements of LS9/10."

So far so good, ish.

G19.4 (Dec '14 update) states "a vehicle fitted with ESC is not modified if the operation of the ESC is affected, unless the ESC is adjusted accordingly." This I don't think is a biggie since the major players (ARB, TJM and maybe others) suspensions advise that their suspensions comply but the problem is they won't certify larger tyres on their suspensions.

Back to LS9 section 1.2 Design not covered under LS9:
- vehicles originally equipped with ESC that have not been approved by the manufacturer or proven by testing.

So given that LS9 also states that lifts up to 75mm (suspension and tyres) are self certified what does that mean? I suspect that it is now ok to fit a lift (up to 50mm) and larger tyres (up to 50mm larger diameter) up to a 75mm lift regardless of whether ESC is fitted or not BUT I would be checking with the Dept or an automotive engineer and if you don't make sure your insurer is aware and approves. It is not likely to be something that gets picked up and defected (never heard of that other that fully dumb lifts on Cruisers and Patrols).

Interesting.

EDIT: still not sure how any of this works in other states that don't have such regulations. Guess local conditions apply like the P plate rules.

EDIT2: I just spoke with an Automotive engineer who is still working on the previous rules because they have been told more changes are coming. He agrees though that the wording at the moment is as above however said that there is still some internal review happening which may affect things. Given that the last bunch of revisions were meant to make it easier for smaller lifts I can only hope the changes are for larger lifts (>75mm).

[Croz]

Sorry guys but I can't find any info telling me that esc has any bearing in the tyre selection.

Qld TMR "minor modifications" publication December 2014 states (abbreviated):

Tyres and Rims
Alternative Rims and Tyres
Many vehicle owners like to replace the vehicle’s original rims and tyres with alternatives of different width, diameter and profile.
The following sub-sections outline the legal requirements for replacement rims and tyres fitted to a passenger car or derivative, or to an off-road passenger car (not including a light commercial vehicle), which will ensure your vehicle continues to comply with Queensland legislation, while allowing for your individual preferences.
For a passenger car, passenger car derivative or ‘soft roader’ (an all wheel
drive vehicle that may be certified as MC ADR category), the overall
diameter of any tyre fitted must not be more than 15mm larger or 26mm smaller than that of any tyre designated by the vehicle manufacturer for that model.
The overall diameter of any tyre fitted to:
• a 4WD passenger vehicle specifically designed for off-road use (MC ADR category other than a ‘soft roader’);
• a 4WD goods vehicle and its 2WD equivalent if the chassis and running gear are essentially the same as the 4WD version (N ADR category); or
• medium weight goods vehicle (NA2, NB ADR category);
must not be more than 50mm larger or 26mm smaller than that of any tyre designated by the vehicle manufacturer for that vehicle.
Note: Speedometer accuracy must be maintained for the selected tyre and rim combination.

Unless the prado is considered a soft roader this appears to allow the 70 profile tyre.

[mjrandom]

Not illegal in qld mate.

You have ESC (stability control)? If yes then the tyres aren't legal.

[matt12]

Not illegal in qld mate.

No worries mate. Just some states.

[Croz]

265/70 increases the diameter by more than 15mm which is illegal in some states in Australia.

Not illegal in qld mate.

[matt12]

I have just bought Dueller 697 in 265 70 17 to replace my standard GX 17 x 6.5 inch.

265/70 increases the diameter by more than 15mm which is illegal in some states in Australia.

[Kapitan]

Prado 150 Toyota offset wheels specifications

Prado 150 Toyota offset wheels specifications in the following post (Swiss data):

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l=1#post493243

[Croz]

All sorted, now wearing a CSA rim with a 25 offset.

Trap for young players, apparently a lot of wheel companies list the 150 as having the same offset as the 120.

[AussieAndy]

That fitment is standard for a 120 Prado, and is definatly illegal fitment in Qld. You need a offset of 25 to be the same as a GXL, a offset of 15 to be the same as a GX, so legal fitment in Qld is anywhere between ET25 and ET2.5 (which doesn't exist but theoretical is the max). This is under Qld laws stating you can't increase the maximum factory track by more than 25mm and you can't decrease the minimum track at all.

Yeah, the width doesn't come into it. Just the offset.

[Croz]

Amts, thanks for the reply mate, that's what I understood. I just wasn't sure if maybe the additional width would counter the increased offset?

I have read the guideline and want to make sure I have my facts all sorted before making a call tomorrow.

On a 150, the offset for the GX is ET15 and the GXL (and above) is ET25. An offset of ET30 would reduce the track and therefore make it an illegal fitment.

[Croz]

I have just bought a set of monster 17 x 8 rims with Dueller 697 in 265 70 17 to replace my standard GX 17 x 6.5 inch. I am quite happy with the appearance of the rims.

The new rims have an offset of 30. I was assured they were ordered to suit the car and were a standard fit for the prado 150 but now looking at the car it doesn't seem right, they sit no wider than the standard rims in the guards. Can anyone help me out with a better under standing of the effect on track width, from what I can work out the rims sit about 1mm wider than factory (based on the calculators in the rim database thread). I expected the rims would have filled the guards more than the standard rims but they don't appear to, the increase appears to be internal (if that makes sense?). I need to know if these are or are not not an illegal figment.

I have been looked after well and if I'm not happy with the rims I can exchange or return them, but need to this week as we are heading off at the end of the week. I just can't completely understand the effect of the new rims on the track and would really appreciate some help, cheers.