Gear selection - Gearbox - Clutch Issues

[nigelturner Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close nigelturner]

Hi All,

Our Prado has been a great 4WD. It has given us very little trouble until now. My wife uses it mostly as her daily to get to work and other general duties. We take it off-road very occasionally (camping, 4WD parks, Frasier Island, etc). Very basic 4WD'ing. It has about 200k on the clock and we service it regularly.

The problem is, its hard to put in to gear. Not just first gear either. And only after we stop (at the lights or something) and take it out of gear. It feels like Im pushing the gearstick against solid steel. With a massive amount of pressure it eventually goes in and appears to drive normally. Every gear is the same although if I rock from first to second then back into first it eventually goes in. Once in a gear, I can change to other gears (inc first gear) easier but there is still some resistance.

It goes in to first while still moving. Like when approaching a red light. If we sit with foot on the clutch and in gear it takes off normally once the light turns green.

It goes in to gear easily when the engine is off.

The clutch master is full of fluid and it doesn't appear to be leaking (im not having to top it up).

It does not happen when we first start driving the car only after we have been driving for a while, after the car warms up.

I have done some searching and could not find anything relevant. Hoping someone may have experienced this before and can shed some light on it for me.


Thanks in advance.

Nigel

[croozza Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close croozza]

Sounds like your clutch is on its way out

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Or it could be the same problem I had.
Too hard to diagnose without seeing it.
As you didn't have time to fill in your details eg. Location, unable to point you in the right direction at this stage.
Hope you could find a good vehicle tech like me, as 8 out of 10 opinions i had, swore blind it's my clutch, even specialists said that after driving it.

It was a gearbox problem!

[nigelturner Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close nigelturner]

Thanks for your responses guys.

We are on the Gold Coast QLD.

I have had a couple of specialists look at it and they dont have a definitive answer. Could be this, sounds like that, were their responses. Wont know until we pull it apart. Fair enough I guess.

Just thought the combined knowledge of the Prado community might shed some better light. Especially if someone else has experienced the same issue.

How did you come to find your gearbox problem ####?

I would hate to replace the clutch only to find it doesn't fix the problem. That said I think the clutch is due anyway. Its probably the original clutch. Six months ago I backed a 16 foot caravan up a driveway, successfully, but the smell afterwards was obviously the clutch. The clutch doesn't seem to slip, but bare in mind that I dont drive it every day.

Thanks again for your help.

Nigel

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Well I diagnosed it as gearbox issue, but could not work out what it could be (in my head)
It's best to diagnose before its pulled out, if its clutch its likely adjustment.
Or faulty slave or master..... Leaks?

If you have it pulled out and clutch looks ok, do they rebuild the box for the ell of it?
A worn clutch won't cause this issue.
A smart tech, should be able to Do tests, as I did to work out which one it is.
When I say smart I mean it, experience is not necessarily enough, put simple, it can seem like clutch is not disengaging.
When I was satisfied it was not the clutch I removed the box and striped it, and found similar to what I expected, that was something shifting around, end play.
I'm still not sure what could have caused it, I'd say its very uncommon.
Usual probs with gearboxes are: none, noisy bearing or worn synchro's.

The clearance at 1st gear was not there, one side of the gear was badly, worn, burnt and damaged really.
It allowed 1st gear to move making contact with the synchro's, so it was grabbing at first all the time.
This made selecting 1,2,3 very hard, 4,5 not too bad.

This could be a problem with these 5 speed boxes, after 200,000klms?
Like if they had the minimal clearance/spec when leaving the factory, then wear wear and........
There was one other person at least describing a slight whine it had and similar probs too. My old box had a slight whine at times
Usually about 100k.
I believe it was the lack of clearance getting bigger all the time.
Replacement 2005 Hilux box in it has no whine. I only know it was the box now as its gone!

TRY THIS:
In neutral foot off clutch mine jerked forward on starting, flat ground, cold is better.
Neutral is neutral this should not happen.
If it does, it's definitely the box.

If it doesn't...... Kind of might be good news

TRY THIS

If you put it in 1st, foot on the clutch and start it cold and it jerks forward, you will likely have a clutch or spigot problem if your hydraulics are ok.
When its running, in gear, how much can u lift your foot before it starts engaging?

[nigelturner Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close nigelturner]

OK,

Definitely doesn't jerk forward when starting in neutral (cold or hot). Also doesn't jerk forward if starting in first (clutch in). When cold it all works well. Its hard to know if its working correctly because gear changing has always been "sticky" the whole time we have owned the car. Issue only appears after driving for a while.

Have noticed that when the clutch is in, first gear is selected and I rev the engine the car feels like its wanting to move forward.

I checked the clutch travel. It starts to engage between a third and half way up.

Thanks again ####.

Nigel

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

If you rev it and it wants to go, then it may be a clutch issue, adjustment? Spigot binding?
I'd think it's one of those if worse when hot, rather than a leak.

Step by step:

First thing I'd do is change/bleed the clutch fluid.
See if it changes. If no.
Adjust the clutch pedal to get a little more push.
If no change.
I would change gearbox oil and add nulon g70, if it then improves it, then it could be hiding a gearbox problem.
It will help with your gear changes either way.

If none of that helps, it was all good maintenance and then I'd think, the spigot could be binding, especially if it worse when hot.

[croozza Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close croozza]

As I said before, it is the clutch.
Due to the fact you cant get gears correctly when stationary, but you can get them easier when moving. This is a very common thing with many makes of vehicles, when my brother inlaws Pajero did this, I told him it was the clutch, so we replaced it and all was good again.

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Hey John, I will when I find some, not sure that it will help much.
But it's ok, croozza had it diagnosed as a clutch problem days ago
Just wak a new clutch in her!

[nigelturner Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close nigelturner]

Hey guys,

Bit of an update.

Replaced the fluid in the clutch system. The stuff I removed was filthy. I suspect it was the original fluid from factory. Bled the new fluid through and checked over the system. There are no leaks that I can see. There has been no need to top up the reservoir either. Im happy that its not a hydraulic issue.

Have organised to get the clutch replaced by a reputable specialist in the hope that this will fix our issue. Just need to decide whether we should install a standard clutch or the heavy duty clutch.

Any thoughts or opinions?

Please remember my wife drives this car daily to work. We do some beach driving (3 times a year max) and some beginner to medium level driving at 4WD parks (twice per year max).

Thanks so much for your help so far.

Nigel

[croozza Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close croozza]

Always go for the HD, the peddle feel will not get any heavier over a std clutch as the system is hydraulic, and ask what brand they are using too.

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Standards last 200,000k+
They dont slip, til their rooted
Save the extra $$$.
The only difference is more spring pressure.
This may make it a tiny bit heavier.

[croozza Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close croozza]

Standards last 200,000k+
They dont slip, til their rooted
Save the extra $$$.
The only difference is more spring pressure.
This may make it a tiny bit heavier.

Thats all good if you dont tow, but if you do a fair bit then you have to go HD

[nigelturner Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close nigelturner]

Ok, new clutch went in a week ago. Problem solved so far but haven't driven it far so I will report back if anything changes.

Thanks again for your help.

Nigel

[gspy4u Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close gspy4u]

Ok, new clutch went in a week ago. Problem solved so far but haven't driven it far so I will report back if anything changes.

Thanks again for your help.

Nigel

So did you go standard or HD ? And where and how much if you don't mind me asking as I think ours is up for a new one soon.

Done 171,000k on original clutch so far.