Possible blown/cracked head??

[colint Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close colint]

Hi Folks,
I was hoping that I may be able to get some practical advice on what to do with my daughter's 2002 Prado diesel 3.0L turbo auto. If I can briefly give a bit of background info just in case it's useful.
She bought the vehicle about 3 months ago and it appeared to be good condition, it has around 310,000kms on the clock. I am assuming that the model is in this category (90 series), rego papers say 1KZ series.
A local guy, who is a mechanic elsewhere, offered to service her vehicle on the weekend as we are in a rural area, and with 4 kids and single, it is just easier to have this type of service....although some may say otherwise.
He done a normal service and seemed to be fairly thorough in checking everything over on the vehicle...this included changing oil and filters, topping up coolant, etc. There were no oil leaks found.
My daughter did mention to me that since the service was done, there was a slight delay in starting the vehicle when she turned the key, however, this may be nothing to do with this problem, but thought I should mention everything just in case.

About two weeks later, she was driving around locally and after the drive heard a 'bubbling' sound when the engine was turned off....unfortunately she didn't check the coolant. Then she did a 100km drive to Central Coast and on arriving nearly at her destination, she noticed the temperature gauge go up all of a sudden, so she stopped and had a mechanic nearby have a quick check of vehicle. He topped up radiator with water and put about 2 litres of oil in engine as it didn't show any oil, and suggested that she may have blown the head gasket. He advised her to drive carefully back home and have more water and oil available, which she did.
She nearly got back home, but temperature gauge shot up again around 90kms...topped it up and managed to get it to the local mechanic's place.

He was shocked by what had happened and thought that it may be the head, either blown or cracked, and would check it out over this week, while he is home.

My concern is this, why has both the engine oil and the coolant disappeared? I can understand that if you had say a blocked radiator or faulty thermostat that coolant can escape through the overflow hose. If the head gasket was blown then coolant will get into the oil and turn it a creamy colour. There was no visible oil leak around the engine, so where did the oil go? There was no wet area around overflow hose, even though my daughter had heard the bubbling and there was a need to have radiator topped up.
What tests can be carried out to try and determine what the actual problem may be?
One could pressure test radiator (all hoses seem to be ok), can you do a compression test on the engine similar to a petrol engine?
One assumes it has an OBD connector so could again run test to see what codes show up.
Is there any other tests/checks that can be done before actiually removing the head?

One theory I had was that maybe when the mechanic serviced the vehicle, he may have forgotten to actually replace the oil....someone suggested that a diesel engine can be kept cool enough for local run arounds with just the coolant. I would doubt this, but then I am not overly familar with diesels.

I am hoping to pay the mechanic a visit in the next few days, so I would like to be able to discuss in more detail, what should be tested and perhaps some guidance on what the problems may be. I have the feeling that it's going to be an expensive fix, but that's another issue to deal with.

My apologies for the lengthly 'story' but thought a full explanation of circumstances may assist with any diagnosis...I would appreciate any advice that can be provided, thank you in advance.
Colin

[carco Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close carco]

Mate at 300,000k's the car will need attention, might pay to find someone familiar with a diesel 90.
The slow start.....she may not have given the glow plugs time to fully heat OR some of the plugs may not be working. You'd have to disconnect the plugs from their 12v power rail and check the resistance of each plug.
Over heat can be from so many things with these cars, their cooling system is borderline at best.
Is the thermostat working properly? I've never had any problem with mine but you never know until you remove and test or just whack in a new one.
Radiator. Is is clean internally and externally? Now that she's been boiled all the old crud will have gone through the core. You can buy an e-bay radiator for a few hundred and they work OK but aren't up to the job if towing. System will need a chemical flush before you fit a new radiator.
Fan. 99% of cracked heads and overheat problems are from the viscous fan hub not working properly. Again you can buy aftermarket for a few hundred OR you can experiment by adding the silicon oil ($11 from Toyota) There's a lot of info on repairing the hub. I found one tube of silicon oil did the job.
Cylinder head. The Toyota head will eventually crack as will the e-bay Chinese copies. Toyota recognised there was a design flaw and instead of sorting the problem they moved to the twin cam head. One company did fix the KZ head and that's AMC. You can check their replacement heads on SMS diesel's web page. In my opinion a full replacement head is the go rather than building up a head using your old valve train.
Auto. At 300,000k your auto may be needing a rebuild. A worn auto overheats the oil which is cooled via the heat exchanger in the bottom tank of the radiator.
So you can see there's a few items to check, most are expensive.
I have no idea where your engine oil went but a lot of the cylinder head cracking happens in the exhaust valve area thus you don't see water/oil contamination, the water/steam just goes out the exhaust.
I'd check if the mechanic put the full amount of oil in when he did the service as these engines take at least 7L.

Apart from that, you MUST check the front suspension lower ball joints. Many mechanics don't understand that the ball joint is loaded hanging from the ball and not pushing into the ball on these cars. When they let go the suspension collapses with catastrophic results. They let go a LOT as at this age, most have been replaced with non genuine parts. My 555 brand lasted 15,000k which is simply appalling considering the genuine Toyota will last hundreds of thousands. (The wear limit for these is 0.5mm) You can source genuine from Amayama or Glen's Mighty 90's Facebook page at excellent prices.
Do a Google search of lower ball joint fail so you're up to speed with the setup.

[t303 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close t303]

I think Carco has just about got it covered, I agree that it sounds like a head gone and at that mileage I would be doing a rad change as a matter of course. If you replace the head do the tbelt, tensioner and water pump at the same time.
I will assume that when starting you mean it has to crank for a while before it fires? Be aware that the glowplug light in these are actually just on a 1.5sec timer and gives no indication as to plug temp. By watching the voltage drop I have worked out that the plugs are glowed at full power for about 5secs before the system starts to taper off the glow, so I just count to five to make sure I hit the starter before the plugs start to cool and/or the battery starts to fade. Also, use the genuine Toyo ceramic plugs if you can, or anything reasonable except Bosch!
I know it sounds like it is going to be $$$$ on what is an old car, but the Prado doesn't know it's an old car, it only knows it needs parts ;-(
The poor man always pays twice.
cheers
Steve

[scottkz Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close scottkz]

A head can ce cracked and not put water in the oil... coolant would be lost through the combustion chamber, quite common for the 1kz to do that, iv also seen cracked heads on diesels only show up and get hot when pushing them hard like up a long hill,as for the oil being low they can be read wrong for some reason
One side of the dipstick will say full while the other side can say empty maybe the first mechanic read it wrong or the second one ... or maybe both read it right but actually used or lost a lot

[t303 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close t303]

One side of the dipstick will say full while the other side can say empty maybe the first mechanic read it wrong or the second one ... or maybe both read it right but actually used or lost a lot

Yeah, isn't it a pain with clean oil. I find it's easier with the dipstick facing a particular way ref the dimples, but the diptube always seems to wipe oil up one side. It gets easier if you check it next morning when everything has settled.

[colint Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close colint]

Hi Folks,
Thank you all for the quick and detailed responses.....it is appreciated. Apparently the mechanic has deemed the problem to be a cracked head and will be pricing a new head next week when suppliers return in the new year. He suspects cost for head will be around $1500 but will need to confirm next week, plus labour.
I am still concerned with loss of oil issue, especially so soon after it had been replaced, and hope to meet up with him on the weekend to discuss.
The comments otherwise seem to give a fairly negative summary on the Prado, even though many other locals around here sing their praises as they seem to handle the dirt roads ok and can fit the number of kids in....which is why she bought it.
Thank you again for responses.
Colin

[scottkz Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close scottkz]

The comments otherwise seem to give a fairly negative summary on the Prado, even though many other locals around here sing their praises as they seem to handle the dirt roads ok and can fit the number of kids in....which is why she bought it.
Thank you again for responses.
Colin[/QUOTE]

Dont let some of the comments put you off there a great car the diesels , cracked heads happen to the best of them once fixed there perfect. As for ball joints id fit new GENUINE only then your good for 200k plus

[t303 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close t303]

Let's face it, it's a high km vehicle! In the washup, you usually pay the same overall for a 50000k or a 300000k vehicle. If you want some REAL expensive problems, buy a high km unloved D4D engined Prado, or a 200K+ BMW X5, SSanyong or something similar! Unfortunately there is no such thing as cheap motoring, although my Honda Jazz comes close :-)

[carco Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close carco]

I presume you're referring to my detailed response when speaking of negative comment.
That's too bad as I have been through all of those items mentioned so I'm talking from first hand experience.
It's a 15 year old 4X with an engine that is underpowered and quite expensive to repair.
If a driver puts the boot in expecting similar performance to a sedan they will be disappointed and if that boot stays planted, she will overheat.
Without a boost gauge an auto driver has no idea just how hard the engine is working.
As for my 2001 diesel 90, she's had one Chinese head (previous owner) and I've fitted an AMC head. Cambelt, tensioner and water pump also done. Injectors reconditioned and new glowplugs.
I've tried one eBay radiator and one Natrad. She's had a viscous fan hub and thermostat.
The auto has been completely rebuilt and trany oil cooler fitted.
The whole front end rebushed, all balljoints, power steer rack, rod ends, steering column, wheel bearings, master cylinder, discs, pads and calipers, as well as springs and shocks all round.
I've owned her for about 18 months and have added about 30,000k's in that time.
I could have bought a more modern 4X but the old school 90 suits me down to the ground.
As for handling dirt roads, if you drive with worn lower ball joints you'll see that dirt real close.

[Brett1979 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Brett1979]

Let's face it, it's a high km vehicle! In the washup, you usually pay the same overall for a 50000k or a 300000k vehicle. If you want some REAL expensive problems, buy a high km unloved D4D engined Prado, or a 200K+ BMW X5, SSanyong or something similar! Unfortunately there is no such thing as cheap motoring, although my Honda Jazz comes close :-)

Add used M Class Mercedes all wheel drives to that list too (like all of them). Unreliable problematic pieces of crap that are expensive to repair and insure.
I'd like to see a Mitsubishi Pajero or Challenger with as high kilometres fair so well too with the same or less problems, or even a Patrol and I know they have their fair share of problems from one model to the next. Falcons with only 200,000km plus kilometres are on their last legs with a terrible transmission whine that they all seem to inherit and clunky gear changes in the auto and hard starting whenever the engine is cold. The AU Falcon was the best Falcon ever at one point as claimed by Ford. I once owned a 2004 Hyundai Santa Fe that I bought new and by the 90,000km stage it had several expensive mechanical issues go wrong with it that some were covered by warranty and some weren't, so I got rid of it 3 years after I bought it. We've got diesel Captiva's at work and I think they're lemons. One had injector failure at 40,000km and the mechanic said "that's normal for these" and some have had issues in a short amount of time which isn't good. My Prado's done 373,000km now and has done its fair share of off-roading. I think it's lasted better than many for its age with the minimal amount of stuff that's needed to be replaced on it. Things that have failed and needed replacing are 1 x radiator, 1 x alternator, 1 x starter motor, front end bushes & ball joints, both cv shafts due to torn rubber boots, rear shock bushes, crank angle sensor, rear upper trailing arm that snapped, rocker cover gasket, air-con, original suspension that was replaced with after market a long time ago.... Been pretty lucky. My friends compliment my car every now and again with how good it's running for its age/kilometres. My power steering rack and exhaust needs replacing but I probably won't worry about spending that kind of money on it at this point as I won't keep the car for ever. My front right control arm bushes have just started to have slight play in them when braking firmly, so will look at fixing that soon. Has been like that for a few weeks now & they've never been replaced before on this car.

The 90 series Prado's are a good car and with the higher kilometres on them are still reliable & dependable. But like any car with age they will cost you money from time to time... And usually at the wrong time.

[t303 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close t303]

Simple rule of thumb for GMH vehicles: never buy one that's name ends with an "A"

Think about it: Camira, Captiva, Barina, Nova......

[Smokey Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Smokey]

Hi Colin.
Your story sounds very similar to mine 3 months ago but I never had the oil issue. I had over 400,000 on the clock and replaced the head, opted to put new rings & bearings etc, clutch and had injectors rebuilt. It cost me just over $5000. The glow plugs, water pump & timing belt were done a month or so before. My mechanic wonders if the new coolant may have unleashed an existing problem. Without the engine rebuild it was just a $500 wreck, only good for parts. In hindsight, mine gave clues in the weeks before cracking the head, there was a slight 'miss' for a few seconds (she ran a bit rough) on cold starts. It all seems good now.
A mate did a head at around 320,000. He replaced just the head etc and has had no further probs..... yet, he spent around $2000 from memory.
Good luck with the repairs.

[colint Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close colint]

Thanks all for the responses, it is greatly appreciated. Whilst I made reference to negative comments, that was from the shock I got at the time....I know that cars of this vintage will cost money at times, but it was the timing of the incident that was the problem - I now accept that any time is not a good time, especially given my daughters present circumstances.....as they say, there is never a good time! One has to move on and get it fixed.....that way I’ll get my car back to use as well.
The mechanic has now confirmed a price and it will be around $1500 including labour, so it seems to be a reasonable price considering some of the comments.
The comments re ball joints was very useful advice, will follow up and check this as well.
Thank you all again...Cheers

[t303 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close t303]

Thanks all for the responses, it is greatly appreciated. Whilst I made reference to negative comments, that was from the shock I got at the time....I know that cars of this vintage will cost money at times, but it was the timing of the incident that was the problem - I now accept that any time is not a good time, especially given my daughters present circumstances.....as they say, there is never a good time! One has to move on and get it fixed.....that way I’ll get my car back to use as well.
The mechanic has now confirmed a price and it will be around $1500 including labour, so it seems to be a reasonable price considering some of the comments.
The comments re ball joints was very useful advice, will follow up and check this as well.
Thank you all again...Cheers

Another plus to owning a Prado is that it is a popular worldwide chassis, you will be able to keep it going for quite a while to come. Try getting parts for a 15yr old Korean car!

[carco Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close carco]

Doom and gloom time again.
$1500 including labour won't be an AMC head. You can buy a complete Chinese head on eBay for $700. Add a gasket set, system flush, new coolant and oil/filter, reuse the old head studs, there's not much left for labour.
If you only want to get it going and then have a re-think, perhaps sell and move on it's all good.
But if you plan on keeping her, you'll just have to spend more.