Fuel Trimming Device for 90 Series Petrol Engines.

[Ozbush Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ozbush]

Hi Gents,

I had many inquiries and requests from Pradopoint members to use our Manual Mapper for petrol engines.

Please refer to Manual Mapper Project for Toyota Diesel engine in 120 forum.

I have been releasing more than 30 diesel engine versions of Manual Mapper to Toyota 1KD-FTV engine owners in just one month and we are quite overwhelmed with orders right now.

Thanks to Matt who donated? volunteered his car for testing and development of his 90 series petrol Landcruiser. And now the unit is ready for production.
It was easy adaptation for petrol engines because it is already has been working with other brand of petrol engines to control lean and rich.

It appears many 90 series owners been suffering with rich mix condition of the 5VZ-FE engines. It is worth a try to control over supply of petrol to save fuel and car's longevity. Our Manual Mapper has been a simple device to install and worked quite effectively.



Please visit my website for further information.
http://ozbushelectronics.com.au/

Cheers
Ozbush

[glen_ep Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close glen_ep]

Hi Gents,

I had many inquiries and requests from Pradopoint members to use our Manual Mapper for petrol engines.

Please refer to Manual Mapper Project for Toyota Diesel engine in 120 forum.

I have been releasing more than 30 diesel engine versions of Manual Mapper to Toyota 1KD-FTV engine owners in just one month and we are quite overwhelmed with orders right now.

Thanks to Matt who donated? volunteered his car for testing and development of his 90 series petrol Landcruiser. And now the unit is ready for production.
It was easy adaptation for petrol engines because it is already has been working with other brand of petrol engines to control lean and rich.

It appears many 90 series owners been suffering with rich mix condition of the 5VZ-FE engines. It is worth a try to control over supply of petrol to save fuel and car's longevity. Our Manual Mapper has been a simple device to install and worked quite effectively.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]21680[/ATTACH]

Please visit my website for further information.
http://ozbushelectronics.com.au/

Cheers
Ozbush

Hi Ozbush,

It's true that 5vz's run rich, but given they don't have an O2 sensor, that condition is essential for engine safety.

How will this product protect the engine from an overly lean condition and resulting damage?

[RanJ Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close RanJ]

I'm keen on this too and have looked in the past to lean out my mixture a little but have always been cautious for the exct reason glen has said. These engines literally live and die by their knock sensors. That's how the computer controls it's timing and mixture.

[RanJ Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close RanJ]

I've been thinking more and more about this since my last post and I kinda scares the hell out of me.

If you increase the fuel/air ratio by 15% and bring your theoretical AF ratio from 14.7 down to 12.5 then yeah for sure... More power!

But if we decrease the mixture by 15% and lift the AF ratio to 17:1 but because the car doesn't see this as it has no 02 sensor then we run the risk of severe detonation, at which point, the knock sensors kick in, retard the timing by 20 degrees or more until detonation stops and won't advance it again until the next ignition cycle.

Love the idea but need to know more.

Edit: I'm not saying your product is bad. Not at all. In fact, I have fitted an O2 sensor to my vehicle purely so I can monitor my mixtures and see what's happening. I'd be interested in seeing how it goes. I'm also in the process of wiring up a small led in my cluster. To alert me when m knock sensors are triggered. So the dangers posed by trimming my fuel is not such a concern for me.

[mal58 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mal58]

If I recall correctly, there are 3 revisions of the 90 series Prado.

The first 2 (1996 - 1998 and 1998-2000), did not have an O2 sensor.
The third revision (2000-2002) did have an O2 sensor and also a CAT converter.

I would think that if you wanted to improve the first two revisions with the above fuel trimming device that you would have to retrofit an O2 sensor so that the device has a feedback loop to control the mixture ratios.

The later revision would be easier.

Cheers,
Mal

[glen_ep Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close glen_ep]

If I recall correctly, there are 3 revisions of the 90 series Prado.

The first 2 (1996 - 1998 and 1998-2000), did not have an O2 sensor.
The third revision (2000-2002) did have an O2 sensor and also a CAT converter.

I would think that if you wanted to improve the first two revisions with the above fuel trimming device that you would have to retrofit an O2 sensor so that the device has a feedback loop to control the mixture ratios.

The later revision would be easier.

Cheers,
Mal

Yes, there is a difference in the later models, which affects wiring and ECU.

However no, there is no O2 sensor on either models. I have a 2001 and have thoroughly gone over the ECU wiring and wiring diagrams (for both editions). No O2 sensor exists. According to diagrams my ECU has a pin for an O2 sensor, but the pins are being used by another component.

There may have been an inline cat, as in one built into the headers on each side.

[glen_ep Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close glen_ep]

I've been thinking more and more about this since my last post and I kinda scares the hell out of me.

If you increase the fuel/air ratio by 15% and bring your theoretical AF ratio from 14.7 down to 12.5 then yeah for sure... More power!

But if we decrease the mixture by 15% and lift the AF ratio to 17:1 but because the car doesn't see this as it has no 02 sensor then we run the risk of severe detonation, at which point, the knock sensors kick in, retard the timing by 20 degrees or more until detonation stops and won't advance it again until the next ignition cycle.

Love the idea but need to know more.

Edit: I'm not saying your product is bad. Not at all. In fact, I have fitted an O2 sensor to my vehicle purely so I can monitor my mixtures and see what's happening. I'd be interested in seeing how it goes. I'm also in the process of wiring up a small led in my cluster. To alert me when m knock sensors are triggered. So the dangers posed by trimming my fuel is not such a concern for me.

Hey Ranj,

Love your work!

Once you figure out the knock sensor leds could you let me know how to do it? It'd be a great assurance for me given mine's supercharged.

Also regarding your O2 sensor, is it wired into the vehicle or running independently?

[RanJ Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close RanJ]

Let you know how I get on. My o2 just rims direct to a narrow band gauge. I did use a four wire sensor so I could preheat the sensor bute a single wire would suffice also

[LeighW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LeighW]

I've been thinking more and more about this since my last post and I kinda scares the hell out of me.

If you increase the fuel/air ratio by 15% and bring your theoretical AF ratio from 14.7 down to 12.5 then yeah for sure... More power!

But if we decrease the mixture by 15% and lift the AF ratio to 17:1 but because the car doesn't see this as it has no 02 sensor then we run the risk of severe detonation, at which point, the knock sensors kick in, retard the timing by 20 degrees or more until detonation stops and won't advance it again until the next ignition cycle.

Love the idea but need to know more.

Edit: I'm not saying your product is bad. Not at all. In fact, I have fitted an O2 sensor to my vehicle purely so I can monitor my mixtures and see what's happening. I'd be interested in seeing how it goes. I'm also in the process of wiring up a small led in my cluster. To alert me when m knock sensors are triggered. So the dangers posed by trimming my fuel is not such a concern for me.

Agree, though I would also be worried about burning out valves etc with an overly lean mixture.

[RanJ Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close RanJ]

Leigh: for sure, those are the direct dangers of running lean. THEORETICALLY you could lean the motor out within reason but youd still have to understand the potential consequences. Personally, I'd be happy to lean my motor out with the proper monitoring tools. But only in certain situations. If I'm driving through town or around hills I woldnt do it. Everytime I give the throttle a jab, I'd be watching everything. Just not practical. But pop me on a highway for awhile and I'd be keen as hell to lean it out a little.

But from memory, the 95s ecu doesn't have a cruise condition trigger. Without an O2... I can't see how it could. I have wondered on the ability of replacing the ecu with something like a Wolf3d or even jut piggyback a SAFC into the mix with my added o2 sensor.

Any thoughts on that?

Glen: what resources do you have on the motor? Going through m fsm, I can't find any specifications on the knock sensors to measure the readings. I've been tempted to run a multimeter plugged into the diagnostic port or straight off the ecu knock sensor inputs to measure the voltage, but is kind of pointless until I know what I'm looking for or how to reliably cause a knock to measure the readings. If i can find that out, I can easily replicate that signal into th ecu and measure the timing to see exactly how it works.

Bushoz: really keen to get some feedback from you. How you addressed oUr concerns. If not, I'd be keen to help develop it further.

[RanJ Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close RanJ]

Oh dear... my brain just kicked in overdrive. A Wolf3d system is a costly move. But... a Commodore ecu from an early model V6 is completely retuneable with replacement eeprom chips that are easily flashed. Many people have used this ecu for many different engines. Sensor wise, the GM 3.8 V6 and the 5vz-fe are very similar. Essentially, we are just missing the O2 sensor.

Could I desicrate my Yota with a Holden ecu?

I think I need a new thread lol.

[LeighW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LeighW]

The O2 sensor would make a difference but only at idle, cruise, light acceleration.
I had the O2 sensor in my KIA sportage go faulty, with faulty sensor was getting about
360K's a tank around the city lots of short trips, stop start etc. New sensor now
returns difference about 460K's the sensor was causing an overly rich mixture.

In theory the mixture should be a lot tighter controlled than they would have been
with a carby/mechanical injector even without the sensor, the sensor would
enable tuning on the fly when cruising etc , but under hard acceleration or rapidly
changing RPM's the ECU will fall back on its look up tables as the sensor can't monitor
the rapid changes occuring in fuel ratios, also under high loads you don't want to be
running lean mixtures unless your monitoring exhaust gas temperatures etc.

An after market engine management system could be employed but you would
really need to dyno the engine to get the best data solution.

[RanJ Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close RanJ]

I have considered the possibility of sourcing an ecu from a us tacoma as it would be obd2 compliant. Wouldn't require any mods to the motor... only the addition of an O2 sensor and feed a suitable input to the post cat o2 sensor to keep it thinking it's pumping clean so it would run purely from the pre cat sensor.

[LeighW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LeighW]

Possible but I then you still need to develope the look up tables unless the
motors are identical in both models?

[RanJ Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close RanJ]

Similar. I believe the ecu part number for the Tacoma is the same as the ecu used in the 95 series that was delivered in the UK and places with obd2.but the tacoma ecu would be far easier and cheaper to source. At the very least it wo I ld be definetly run the motor quite well but could do with some map editing on a dyno.

Regardless, even if they were the same, would still be worthwhile to tweak the maps to get the most benefit from the swap.