Front anti-roll bar quick disconnects

[wholesalesuspension Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close wholesalesuspension]

Hey Jason,

Thanks for those images, very informative! ...and what a difference between the 90 and the 120! ...and I understand now why the 90 links would need to be lengthened.

Very interesting change in geometry!

...so the sway bar on the IFS in the 90 would definitely be more limiting in articulation travel, so maybe what MJ observed with his original measurements were correct, and the benefits of running without a sway bar on the 120 are minimal compared to the 90???

Best

Mark

Definitely the 95 is far more restricted in it's movement.
I have not had the opportunity to try out a 120 to see what the difference is with & without links in. Would be interesting to know though.

Regards, Jason.

[glen_ep Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close glen_ep]

..........
Glen, what you've said about your articulation and body roll in rough terrain is then quite interesting.

I was under the general impression that due to the limitations of the IFS in Prados, we needed to get as much flex as possible out of the rear. I'm running a similar rear shock (365-618mm) to you, and I'm assuming the difference in the 4-link (call it 5-link with the panhard rod) between the 90 and the 120 is minimal.

...and yet you find the net result a contradiction of the original assumption that more flex in the 4-link would be helpful.

Yes it's a strongly held belief that more rear articulation is the secret weapon to be untapped on IFS vehicles, and my post wasn't meant take anything away from that. My main concern was that the front is too rigid with that sway bar, causing body roll according to obstacles under the front wheels, causing driver discomfort as the vehicle body tips towards a ledge!! Disconnecting the front bar releases some tension and allows the suspension to absorb more, resulting in less body roll.

However, on thinking more about this, it's probably true that more flex in the rear is not as much a secret weapon as it's believed to be. Below all my tyres are on the ground (with front sway), but how much weight is actually on the rear driver side? Let's say 10%, and how much will that really help if the terrain was steeper?



If we make the front more flexible, it'll then absorb more via compression/extension, the body will be more level, placing a more balanced amount of weight on the tyres. This is definitely more ideal, and going to get you further. Of course we're doing a full loop here and coming back to the limitations of IFS...

I have a few more questions then for you Glen;

i) are your front sway bar links lengthened, as Jason suggested? (if you run with the sway bar in)

ii) do you run with your rear sway bar in to reduce body roll? ...I'm not sure what shock open length the rear sway bar binds on the 90 series?

iii) regarding the rose/heim joints you are running on your rear trailing arms, are these Icons? I've read in the FJ blue room that they can end up clunking a lot (as Jason has mentioned), but this is because the nyloc nuts haven't been tightened all the way up. Once tightened the noise goes away. ....I'm also not sure if the heim joints Icon use have a teflon liner?

I'm currently running Roadsafe heim joints on my extended rear sway bar link, and it doesn't have a teflon liner, and it hasn't made any noises yet. I'm also going to try these on the front. ....from a strengthening perspective more than anything else, as I don't wanna bust a CV boot.

Very interesting stuff!

Best

Mark

i) yes I have the 30 (35?) mm extended links, all 4.

ii) I keep rear sway connected always. With the longer shocks and heim links it's become necessary because without it I'll drop springs and the prop shaft will hit the sub tank.

iii) Total Chaos extreme links kit for 4runner 96-02 (seems they're no longer on their website). Panhard with Heim joints both ends, upper/lower arms with heim joint one side and greasable bushing on the other. All heims are teflon coated. No noises yet but I haven't had them very long. See pics at this link...

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l=1#post486657

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey Glen,

Thanks for all that great info, particularly about the rear flexing better with the heim joints. That is some awesome rear flex for still having your sway bar in!!

Love the piks of the Total Chaos trailing arms, I'm off to sell a kidney!

...what free height coil are you running in the rear?

I need to go and find a really big rock now!

Best

Mark

[glen_ep Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close glen_ep]

Hey Glen,

Thanks for all that great info, particularly about the rear flexing better with the heim joints. That is some awesome rear flex for still having your sway bar in!!

Love the piks of the Total Chaos trailing arms, I'm off to sell a kidney!

...what free height coil are you running in the rear?

I need to go and find a really big rock now!

Best

Mark

Yeah love the heim arms, but admittedly their value is limited with standard geometry. To get the most out of heim arms they should all be longer to prevent rear steer. Anyway, my main reason to buy them was all the old arm bushings were stuffed, I'm hoping these joints will have longer life as they are designed to flex more than rubber.

Rear coils are sagged OME medium 2" - OME890 - 435mm originally, but more like 400-410 now. 14.5mm thick, 9.7 coils, rate 190/33.

[floatingkiwi Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close floatingkiwi]

Guys I'm assuming the 95 is the same but in my 2" lifted KZN185 surf I can remove one of the front sway links while offroad and at either left or right full droop/compression the sway bar stays clear of the steering arms, so I just simply unbolt one link when I go offroad. EFS lift.

[wholesalesuspension Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close wholesalesuspension]

I have some links coming hopefully this week & i'll see how much modification they need to fit.

Regards, Jason.

[Tin175 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tin175]

I couldn't resist. I knocked these up after work. I'm pulling out my struts sometime in the next couple of weeks, so I'll put these in and see if they hit anything. They are for my 150.
Not too concerned about the bolt head falling off. The bolts are grade 12.9 (hard to drill) and about twice the diameter of the factory links.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Problem will be getting rabbit back in the box!

[wholesalesuspension Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close wholesalesuspension]

Problem will be getting rabbit back in the box!

Exacary what i thought when i saw them.
Nice simple design, but looks to be a 2 person job to reconnect.

Regards, Jason.

[Tin175 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tin175]

Installed the disconnects last night. It wasn't too bad getting the R-clips back in. First side was easy. I had to pull the swaybar arm down on the other side to get the hole to line up but it didn't need much and was easy to do with my spare hand.

Driving with the disconnects locked there is a very slight mechanical click as there is still a bit of play in the assembly with the R-clip in. Not too noticeable. The stuff moving about in my rear draws make more noise. When disconnected you hear the clunk as the bush slides up and down. It is not constant and mainly happens during sudden changes in direction or terrain.

On the road car rolls noticeably more when disconnected. On my little test hill I get further up before the traction control kicks in. Hopped out and checked clearances to the disconnects. On the extended side it will was close to fouling on the hub upright. All clear on the compression side. I should be able to get more clearance by shortening the top rose joint or by limiting the up travel of the bush.

[haakonbs Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close haakonbs]

I have some links coming hopefully this week & i'll see how much modification they need to fit.

Regards, Jason.

Any news here?

[wholesalesuspension Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close wholesalesuspension]

Any news here?

Hopefully within 2 weeks.
Have been flat out, then had my Prado die on the way to Melbourne last week.

Regards, Jason.

[haakonbs Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close haakonbs]