Would you pull me out?

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Trek I am talking about mine where the top bolt goes through the chassis. No comment on the other style.

[Trekrider Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Trekrider]

Trek I am talking about mine where the top bolt goes through the chassis. No comment on the other style.

Then my second paragraph stands

[BrettM Member Find all posts View Profile Close BrettM]

Agree to disagree it all comes down to the person doing to recovery.I'm sure any one doing to snatch would want to use the least amount of force as possible weather it be after market recovery points or the tow points so a bit of shovel work before hand will make things much safer for all common sense really is all it comes down to

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

Factory tow points, rated recovery points, or welded loops... I'm stopping to help:

[VXWesty Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close VXWesty]

I'll pull her out with my bare hands!

VXWesty

[blkd4d Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close blkd4d]

Factory tow points, rated recovery points, or welded loops... I'm stopping to help:

Get out of the way I will help her, shit what points did she have .

[Guest Close Guest]

"Assumptions made need to be based on past experience and sound engineering logic and cannot be random assumptions. Unsound assumptions can have disastrous consequences."

From here http://www.cheresources.com/invision...eering-design/

[Trekrider Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Trekrider]

I think that Toyota's decision to print words to the effect that the factory points are not suitable for recovery purposes may have also been based on past experience and sound engineering logic and as the designer of the car in question, I believe that they may have had access to the chassis design and construction tolerances.

I suspect the statement from Toyota regarding the use of the points has more to do with avoiding litigation than it does to a lack of confidence in their product.

No two recovery situations are the same and it's probably impossible to predict the forces involved with any degree of certainty so it's not surprising they say not to use them - I would say the same in their position.

[butane8 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close butane8]

further more

beside the fact the young blonde really needs help. the " key point " would be stop / and think!
there's always other parts of a vechile to wrap ya slings around.. just take ya time evan if its a GTG
, cheers boys gotta go, that blonde just knocked at me door, out for a thankyou date .. for hookin up the V6 prado. lol
cheers butane

[Guest Close Guest]

Very sensible comments there Jasen.

Just in addition to the 'assumptions' post, engineering assumptions are made such that if there are any unknowns, the assumptions are made to create a conservative result.

There was also a question about the suitability of the bolt holes in the chassis for mounting aftermarket recovery points. The aftermarket recovery points are designed to have a good contact and surface area to the chassis. This creates frictional forces, which when the bolt is tensioned up properly, provides the required joint to transfer forces to the chassis. Thus, the welded on nuts inside the chassis are being pulled into the chassis. The weld on the nuts will only fail if there is a gap between the recovery point and chassis.

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

Very sensible comments there Jasen.

Arghh... must resist urge to want to agree with Jasen... must resist..!?!

Quick, re-read smart bar thread - that'll do it. Phew!

[Guest Close Guest]

Arghh... must resist urge to want to agree with Jasen... must resist..!?!Quick, re-read smart bar thread - that'll do it. Phew!

I don't think that's the same Jasen though.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

I don't think that's the same Jasen though.

Good point. Who the hell are you and what have you done with Jasen.

[Trekrider Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Trekrider]

I'm just saying that no one can prove the factory points are safe without engineering calculations and that aftermarket recovery points have to have engineering calculations to be able to sell them as recovery points with a stamped SWL.

To be frank the suggestion that a company in Australia could sell a recovery point with a stamped SWL that is only for the plate and not all components in the kit and the chassis mount methodology that it is specifically designed for is an insult to the Australian company that sells them. Especially when I when I hear on PP most days how we shouldn't buy from China due to their poor quality and safety and how we should buy from Australian companies because of the quality and standards.

We are going to have to agree to dis-agree on this one. The first bolt on recovery points I saw for the 120 were home made and someone on here did get a few made up and sold them. The ones you now buy from the 4WD shops are exact copies of those. These have never been 'engineered', people have simply used a big slab of steel that isn't going to break and bolted them to a convenient point. If there were to be a failure it is highly unlikely that the steel itself would break, the failure would be in the chassis or the bolts in which case the aftermarket company can say "our recovery point didn't break it must have been a failure in the chassis". I challenge you to get any of these aftermarket suppliers to provide any form of engineering evidence (other than the tensile strength of steel) for their recovery points.

Ok I'm going to say it. Anyone that is responsible for any organised 4x4 meeting that sets a minimum requirement that openly accepts practices that are contradictory to manufactures recommendations is in my opinion failing in their duty of care to the participants of the event. I believe that you could be open to litigation and aftermarket recovery points should be if not a minimum requirement a recommendation. I believe it would be poor practice to go to print saying factory recovery point are acceptable. If there is concern that people might pull out it might be better to not mention the factory points.

So, are you saying that anyone with a 120 Prado and an ARB Bullbar isn't allowed to go on organised 4x4 events as they don't have rated recovery points? As has been stated many times, you can't get rated recovery points for a 120 with an ARB Bullbar.

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

I don't think that's the same Jasen though.

Good point. Who the hell are you and what have you done with Jasen.

Holy sh!t... don't tell me the smartbar can actually make you smarter!