NSW VSI-50 Legislation Back Again!!!

[glen_ep Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close glen_ep]

AJ120,
I'm not surprised that a Prado owner would say that 2" suspension and 2" tyres is all anyone needs - that just so happens to be the economical lifting limits of a Prado. You won't go any more, so why should anyone else. I'll tell you why; the larger Landcruisers and Patrols have wider track and wheelbase, so their ideal lift is 3" + 3". I know a bunch of good family oriented 4x4 club members who all have that kind of vehicle and lift. They wouldn't rip up the tracks, so why should they be limited by your preference for 2+2?

Trekrider,
I don't think competition vehicles are very interesting, it's pretty much a matter of who has the most money. Which then rules most people out of the sport. How can a sport be enjoyed if it's unaffordable?

It seems to me the naysayers are just in this for touring. I ask you to consider that others enjoy the more challenging aspect of 4x4ing as well.

[Trekrider Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Trekrider]

It seems to me the naysayers are just in this for touring. I ask you to consider that others enjoy the more challenging aspect of 4x4ing as well.

Funny you should say that, I know someone with a 6" lifted Patrol with big tyres who does a lot of serious off-roading (not touring) who has decided to reduce the size of tyres he has to make it more challenging (read fun).

[williade Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close williade]

Funny you should say that, I know someone with a 6" lifted Patrol with big tyres who does a lot of serious off-roading (not touring) who has decided to reduce the size of tyres he has to make it more challenging (read fun).

If you consider increasing the chances of damaging the vehicle "fun".

[Trekrider Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Trekrider]

If you consider increasing the chances of damaging the vehicle "fun".

I did say it was someone else

[glen_ep Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close glen_ep]

Funny you should say that, I know someone with a 6" lifted Patrol with big tyres who does a lot of serious off-roading (not touring) who has decided to reduce the size of tyres he has to make it more challenging (read fun).

Yeah, there is a point at which the challenge becomes finding something challenging, so you either have to crawl enormous rocks or do what he's doing. But keep in mind a 6" Patrol with big tyres is already above what any reputable engineer would certify even with the current rules. They have been sticking to 6" including the tyre's lift, which is in effect, a Patrol with 4" suspension and 35's (not extreme IMO).

[Trekrider Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Trekrider]

Looking at this another way round - how would they determine how much lift you had? When I went from stock to OME mine went up 50mm (2") at the back and 80mm (just over 3") at the front but according to OME the lift at the front is only 25mm (1")!

[williade Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close williade]

Looking at this another way round - how would they determine how much lift you had?

By measuring the wheel to flare distance against the figures here:

http://rvcs-prodweb.dot.gov.au/perl/...2004194442.cmd

EDIT:
For those who want to look up RVDs for other vehicles
http://rvcs-prodweb.dot.gov.au/pls/w....Notify_Search

[Trekrider Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Trekrider]

By measuring the wheel to flare distance against the figures here:

http://rvcs-prodweb.dot.gov.au/perl/...2004194442.cmd

Thanks, using those figures looks like I have a 2" lift front and rear.

[eatlovelearn Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close eatlovelearn]

4wdaction are rapidly degrading their credibility with this propaganda.

Sorry but I support the 75mm combined lift and restrictions of >50mm RD of tyres. These specs are better than was requested by the vast majority of supporters the last time VSI-50 was raise.

Yes it is fun for the boys, but there are other road users and major engineering and safety concerns when vehicles are mod'd greater than these specs.

I support and had a Comp truck but in line with track cars and other motor sport vehicles, Comp trucks should not be able to be driven on public roads.

well said spurio,
we already pay enough taxes for the damage done to the roads by trucks and heavy machinery , i think we all agree that we made a choice to buy a prado because
its a sensible car for on or off the road . i was heart broken when the tracks in gembrook were closed some years ago when i had a lifted 80 series ,
but i also came close to serious injury possibly death through my 'gung ho' attitude . i think i became a better driver because of it dont get me wrong ,
but i realise now i dont need that big thirsty pig of a wagon to get up those hills , but if thats your thing , join a club and make it legit . buy some land
and do what you want with it , make it safe . does this make sense ?
its gonna be a big blow to our common sense , intelligence and our basic right to make decisions for our selves [that are inside the law] i think we all should try and preserve what little rights we do have in this country so if it really affects you go for it !!!

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

AJ120,
I'm not surprised that a Prado owner would say that 2" suspension and 2" tyres is all anyone needs

That is not what I said!

Cheers Andrew

[Noobie Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Noobie]

Why are people getting upset... It just means you need to join a club to keep extreme(r) 4wds legal. Freakin great idea I reckon. Means any future prohibitive action by government and we now have cashed up focussed groups to stop them. It means the idiots can be educated. Means safer more sociable 4wding, all this AND you still get your extreme builds remaining legal. Maybe I'm missing something

[smakb Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close smakb]

Why are people getting upset... It

The problem is that a lot of people have to move interstate with work every year and we need a national standard. We can not re-engineer our vehicle every time we move. I am no longer in the Defence Force, but in the last 5 years I was in I lived in 4 states, NSW (Sydney) to QLD (Brisbane) to WA (Perth) to QLD (Townsville) to VIC (Melbourne).

One country – one standard

[mickmac_42 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mickmac_42]

Why are people blaming the 4wd, whether it has been lifted 1 inch to 6 inches or still std, it will tear up a track if it is in the wrong hands, it all comes down to the driver and his/her attitude, making these rules is going to make no difference, they need to crack down on the yobbos that are wrecking it for the rest of us.

I agree wholeheartedly. There seem to be two issues here. The first is that excessive modification compromises road safety, and the crux of the argument is that unsafe cars should registered for road use. I think we can all agree that this is sensible. I'm no engineer (in fact i struggle with an oil change) so i won't weigh into a discussion about what level of modification is okay. Suffice to say that there are a host of smart people with computers and crash dummies making these decisions and they are all better informed than Joe Bloggs the bush mechanic who's been driving off-road all his life and "know's better."

I also note that a lot of attention is given to this matter, like it is going to make an ounce of difference to what people do. One doesn't have to look far in this forum alone to find people adding HID low beam lights without also adding auto-levelling and washers, thus showing complete disregard for other drivers. There's even a couple of blokes talking about taking the catalytic converters off their exhaust. Apparently a few extra kilowatts is more important than the environment.

The second argument is that these big lift/big wheeled trucks are destroying the tracks for the smaller off-roaders.

While there does seem to be link between those who aggressively modify their wheels and suspension and the yahoo's that tear up public land for recreation with blatant disregard for the consequences of their actions, this damage can still be done with done by any clown with a 4wd/atv/dirt bike who has more ambition than ability. So the essence of the argument is the attitude of the driver.

How often do we see people boasting about how they managed to drive down a road closed due to rain, or posting pictures of themselves forging a path down a muddy track. I live near Hancocks pine forest where this is a regular occurrence. This is private property and attempts have been made to keep trespassers out by building earth ramparts, erecting fences and signs. These are damaged or destroyed on a weekly basis. The culprets invariably run out the same sob story, "where else am i meant to go," "the government should provide us with a place to do this," and my favourite "landcruiser park? I can't afford to pay that much" as they stand next to a car with $10k+ of mods.

What they fail to comprehend is that aside from all the rubbish that gets dumped, the damage done to the tracks prevents the QFRS gaining access to control a fire which subsequently threatens the adjacent homes and utilities. It prevents the QAS access to a bike rider who's wrapped himself around a tree, and it prevents the Police from conducting patrols and locating your stolen car/evidence in a break and enter etc.

Don't get me wrong. I've got no problems with wallowing around in a bog hole, or eroding away banks as my four wheels struggle for traction. And who hasn't felt a bit envious when they see a competition truck waltzing up a near vertical rock. My point is that there is a place for this stuff. Either do the damage in your own backyard, or accept that your hobby is a luxury and pay the cash to go to a commercial park.

Duck Creek Road is also suffering from hooligans not content with what it is. We're (very generously) allowed to drive through some private land on a privately maintained road and enjoy some stunning scenery. This privilege is being endangered by idiots who blatantly disregard the 'tread lightly' ethos, and decide to make an easy cruise into a double black diamond run.

It may just be the minority of off-roaders who do this, but as usual they are ruining it for everyone else who comes and goes unnoticed. These idiots are the ones who have pushed their modifications too far, citing ignorance ("i read it on the internet," "everyone else does it," and "i bought it like that so it must be legal") and crying poor ("it's booked in to get fixed/certified tomorrow, honest"). As usual, the legislators are pushing back, perhaps too far, perhaps not.

My two cents (and i got a lot of value for my two cents) is that this legislation is a good thing. Most 4wd's spend most of their time driving on the road. It only makes sense that they not contribute to making a dangerous place even more so. If only we could do more about the hoons!

End rant.

Mike

[alternative Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close alternative]

Yes legislation is good, but where does it end. We already live in the most Legislated, over taxed, over priced country on the planet where government, banks and companies manipulate and destroy the little man on a regular basis. Maybe you attitude might be "good, get rid of the big wheeled hoons chewing up the countryside", but whats next ? Outlawing it completely ?

Banning big wheels and a big lift is not going to make the problem go away, theres alway going to be idiots.

I have never had or can never see myself EVER coming close to where the law might end up if this goes through, but i will be supporting the NSW guys in stopping this stupid legislation.

Theres a few guys on here with 3"-4" lifts.... are they hoons ?

[mickmac_42 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mickmac_42]

Yes legislation is good, but where does it end. We already live in the most Legislated, over taxed, over priced country on the planet where government, banks and companies manipulate and destroy the little man on a regular basis. Maybe you attitude might be "good, get rid of the big wheeled hoons chewing up the countryside", but whats next ? Outlawing it completely ?

Perhaps. Perhaps not. It's very easy to leap to dramatic conclusions e.g. "Gay marriage? What's next, people marrying animals?!?" See how i took an issue of contention and made it absurd by making a conclusion based on no facts. How about, "Carbon tax? What's next, a ban on carbon?" Let's work with what we know rather than leap to extreme conclusions.

Banning big wheels and a big lift is not going to make the problem go away, theres alway going to be idiots.

Tru dat. But it would be discriminatory to legislate against just the idiots (nobody likes being called an idiot), so we all get tarred with the same brush.

I have never had or can never see myself EVER coming close to where the law might end up if this goes through, but i will be supporting the NSW guys in stopping this stupid legislation.

Not sure i understand what this means, but i support your democratic right.

Theres a few guys on here with 3"-4" lifts.... are they hoons ?

Don't know. Best ask them that. It depends on how they drive.