How things can quickly go wrong............

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Remembering video makes things look slower than in the real.

Cargo barrier? All that shit flying around started on the bak seat. 2 cargo barriers now?

Slow down will overcome all the guess work.

[bundyk Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bundyk]

What gets me about the video is the bit at the end where it says "Goulburn Mulwaree Council will be contacted about the heavy overburden of gravel and incorrect camber on this section of road which caused this rollover" which means the driver is not accepting the responsibility of the prang, and is looking for a scape goat which will be the council. This type of attitude really gets to me and I reckon this is a part of what is wrong with the world today. The driver was simply driving too fast for the conditions, no if, buts or maybe's. People need to start accepting the responsibility for their actions/mistakes instead of looking for someone else to point the finger at.
I hope the required people have actually seen the video (insurance and council) as you can see that when the back starts to come around he was not out in the loose stuff on the edge of the road, and he was clearly able to see the condition of the road ahead. The car started into a slow slide which is caused by the vehicle exceeding the limits of traction and was easily avoidable. I cant see a roo personally, but Im not saying there wasn't one there. The attitude of the vehicle was not consistent with a swerve though, meaning there was no sudden turn right to induce the slide. If there was a roo, he didn't swerve to avoid it IMO
A touch more opposite lock and some power and the car could have driven out of that situation, but that's not instinct to someone who doesn't have experience in driving through a slide, most peoples reaction would be to brake to try and loose speed, which can make things worse.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

I was always taught "if in doubt, power out". The problem with neat little sayings like that, is they are correct about 50% of the time.

.

Who ever taught you that was an idiot, in an oversteer situation the last thing you want is more power, all that will do is spin you around faster.

All you can really do once into a slide is lift your foot off the accelerator, if that stops the slide then you can very gently apply the brakes to wash off some more speed.

Cheers Andrew

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Who ever taught you that was an idiot

Insert "Dead"

It's just a hoon hero statement.

[Beach Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beach]

Who ever taught you that was an idiot, in an oversteer situation the last thing you want is more power, all that will do is spin you around faster.

All you can really do once into a slide is lift your foot off the accelerator, if that stops the slide then you can very gently apply the brakes to wash off some more speed.

Cheers Andrew

Not quite. Like any technique it depends on the situation. Training and practice is the key.

[JoshF Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close JoshF]

C what happens when u don't have a Prado.

Isn't he driving a real Landcruiser??

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Not quite. Like any technique it depends on the situation. Training and practice is the key.

No, if you are in an oversteer slide and you add more power you will make the situation worse, guaranteed every time, regardless of whether you are joe average or Michael Schumacher.

If you are in an under steer slide then a highly skilled driver may be able to use power to correct things, very few people without a racing background would be that skilled.

Cheers Andrew

[Beach Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beach]

No, if you are in an oversteer slide and you add more power you will make the situation worse, guaranteed every time, regardless of whether you are joe average or Michael Schumacher.

If you are in an under steer slide then a highly skilled driver may be able to use power to correct things, very few people without a racing background would be that skilled.

Cheers Andrew

Once again - as I said - it depends on the situation. In your example of oversteer, yes, adding more power will make it worse. Conversely, slamming on the brakes often makes a situation worse. The vast majority of drivers on our roads would not know driving techniques if you hit them in the face with the text books. As demonstrated in the video. Theres no substitute for skills and practice.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

I was always taught "if in doubt, power out". The problem with neat little sayings like that, is they are correct about 50% of the time.

Above is what you said, and that saying is not correct anywhere near 50% of the time, it would be lucky to be correct 1% of the time, and even then not by 99% of the population.

As for slamming on the brakes in that situation, that "may" have actually been a good idea. Locking up the brakes is generally considered a bad move but the exception to that rule is on loose gravel as the tyres will then bulldoze the loose gravel in front of the wheel and cut through to the hard surface underneath. If, and it's a big if, he had given up trying to drive around the corner and straightened the wheel and slammed on the brakes he may have washed enough speed off in order to stay upright.

The point though is in relation to the question asked by capt crash, and that is you get off the gas in any slide situation, if you can get in a straight line then use the brakes. How to use the brakes will very much depend on the situation.

If in doubt never ever try and be a hero and power out!

Cheers Andrew

[JoshF Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close JoshF]

Driving dirt roads daily I must admit I probably go way to quick. After watching this ill definitely be taking a bit more care specially with my little boy in the car. That happened extremely easy. Having said that, VSC would have kicked in on the prado and I reckon it has saved me a few times from the back end doing exactly that - scary stuff.

I would consider slowing down because I have a son/daughter not just because they are in the car

[Beach Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beach]

Above is what you said, and that saying is not correct anywhere near 50% of the time, it would be lucky to be correct 1% of the time, and even then not by 99% of the population.

As for slamming on the brakes in that situation, that "may" have actually been a good idea. Locking up the brakes is generally considered a bad move but the exception to that rule is on loose gravel as the tyres will then bulldoze the loose gravel in front of the wheel and cut through to the hard surface underneath. If, and it's a big if, he had given up trying to drive around the corner and straightened the wheel and slammed on the brakes he may have washed enough speed off in order to stay upright.

The point though is in relation to the question asked by capt crash, and that is you get off the gas in any slide situation, if you can get in a straight line then use the brakes. How to use the brakes will very much depend on the situation.

If in doubt never ever try and be a hero and power out!

Cheers Andrew

You're percentages are a bit wrong and you're a little long winded, but essentially we are saying the same thing. I have "powered out when in doubt" and its worked quite well. Nothing heroic about it. However, I should add, its a technique I have found more suited to bikes than 4WD's. As you pointed out and as I stated in the bit you quoted - theres exceptions to every rule. Once again - skills, techniques, practice. Repeat.

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Bundy k on the right track

Ok, I have not read it all yet, but seems like a disagreement

I think it's a hoon statement, I'm not going to tell people to power out of everything, however.......
It's a hard one to call what might have worked, once it's coming around from the rear, sometimes any more decel makes it worse too, more decel, more sideways = less traction. So if you were to lightly power it can help to straighten it up & keep the tyres turning to get your traction back.
Certainly no brakes!!!!!! Brakes are for when your str8!!!!

Now I go back to my shell, where's my shell.......

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Sorry, beach, bundyk and ####, I am in total disagreement with you, last time I will say this, if the back steps out like in the video which is oversteer, adding any more power will make the situation worse, absolutely 100% guaranteed that it makes it worse, forget about skill or practice or anything else, more power = more oversteer end of discussion.


Cheers Andrew

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Sorry, beach, bundyk and ####, I am in total disagreement with you, last time I will say this, if the back steps out like in the video which is oversteer, adding any more power will make the situation worse, absolutely 100% guaranteed that it makes it worse, forget about skill or practice or anything else, more power = more oversteer end of discussion.


Cheers Andrew

Bewdifull something else we won't agree on, that's ok.
We can agree we don't agree right

[rob_macca67 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close rob_macca67]

Usually on most dirt roads there's a "well-worn" part that all cars seem to drive & give u the best grip, but with this fella he seemed too far to the left which resulted in him driving in the all the loose build up of dirt on a mild corner that has a bad camber.....I don't know how fast he was going (looked a bit quick in the video) but i reckon even if he was only doing 60k's I reckon the same thing may have happened with the tail end of the car kicking out...... the end result may have been different though......

As far as powering on to get out of it...... just look at the vehicle type. You put your foot down in one of those Cruisers and your will be waiting a while for any response (if any) to happen

just my thoughts though....