Hand winch (vs electric) experiences and feedback wanted

[Spark45 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Spark45]

G'day all,

I'm shopping for a 150 series prado (3.0L TD) at the moment and doing my homework on the accessories.

The car will be used for 'proper' 4WDing, e.g. accessing camping and hunting locations on properties and forest trails and all that requires, but it will be just for getting there. Not interesting in doing 4WDing itself for the challenge/fun and finding challenging tracks or anything like that where it is more likely to get stuck.

Also in due course plan to do a driving trip around central Australia, but again won't be going extreme routes just for the challenge sake.

A definite addition to the car is going to be under-vehicle protection and recovery point.

A winch would be great, but would only be a 'just in case' addition which makes it hard to justify looking at some of the costs.

I'm sure there are cheaper options out there but just to throw out some numbers I got from ARB.

warn magnum 10 9.5x24 - $1,142

warn zeon 10 9.5x24 - $1,732

$300 or so for some of the kit for it and installation. Both 9,500lb winches.

That's if the prado I get is fitted with a winch compatible bullbar, otherwise it's another $2k for that.

$2k - $4k for a 'just in case' winch is really pushing it.


On the flip side I see things like the Mean Mother 3200kg hand winch (7,000lbs) which has good feedback from everything I've seen and can be had new for less than $550, and would attach to the recovery point installed with the UVP.

On paper almost seems like it's no contest and the hand winch is the obvious choice, but I've never used either myself so don't really know.


Feedback / thoughts / things I've missed?

Cheers.

[topic97 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close topic97]

Im also interested in this.
I have an ARB non winch bar & was looking at converting it, but if a hand winch would do the job it would save a lot of work and money.

But then Id imagine that using a hand winch to get you out of trouble would be a lot more time consuming.

[Guest Close Guest]

A Runva 11xp is the same price as that hand winch you mentioned. I know which one I'll pick.

Having said that, I would get a set of Maxtrax (or 2) first before a winch for your type of driving.

[peter_mcc Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close peter_mcc]

If you're not in a hurry and the winch is a "last resort" then a hand winch might be ok. They are more flexible - you can pull the car any direction - and you can easily pull other things (logs, camper trailers, other people).

But... they are slow and hard work. In my younger days 4 of us got stuck on a hill outside Jenolan Caves - the road was getting too steep so stopped and we walked down to find we wouldn't be able to get up the other side. We then spent the next 18hrs getting the cars up the hill using the winch and mats under the wheels. At one point we drove out to Oberon to get pizza...

If you're going to be by yourself most of the time and play it safe with the tracks you attempt I'd say a hand winch could be a useful thing.

[LeighW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LeighW]

As above, with a heavy car hand winches are hard work! You also are very close to the cable if
something goes wrong. They are handy in that they can pull side ways but you can rig an electric
winch to pull on angle.

A hand winch stored in the car is probably more reliable, have seen a few instances where
electric winches didn't work when they really needed to, they do have to be maintained.

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

Going by your travel plans my advice would be to save your money for the equipment that you really need. If you are remaining on the proper maintained roads and tracks then the hand winch and cable will just be 2 pieces of un-needed gear taking up valuable space in the car. Winches - electric and hand type - are an essential item for those venturing off formed roads and into the great bush locations where self-recovery options are a must. Sometimes you may travel with others in a group who have such items so in this situation recovery gear can be shared around.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

When I bought my first full sized 4wd all I had was a hand winch. I had a small dam and gully where I lived at the time. I winched the 4wd through the gully. This achieved the following:

It proved the winch worked
It proved that the recovery was possible
It showed me that it was stupid hard work
I vowed never to intentionally get into a position where I had to repeat the exercise
Did I say it was hard work?

[geege Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close geege]

As LeighW said, an electric winch can be rigged to pull backwards etc using snatch blocks - have a quick Google/Youtube search and you'll see what I mean

Also, you can get a winch 'bumper' mount which does not require a bullbar - Google AFN in bumper winch mount
They're still around $1000 though - I'd probably just spend the extra money on a bullbar

There's also the option of a cradle mounted electric winch to make it portable and also pull from any side - I'm pretty sure Warn do a cradle

I'd consider a bullbar a fairly essential kit for a driving trip around central Australia...

Personally, I'm getting the AFN bullbar and Runva 11xp when I find time to get it installed
The Runva has a pretty good reputation as far as I've seen - on here and other forums

[Spark45 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Spark45]

Having said that, I would get a set of Maxtrax (or 2) first before a winch for your type of driving.

Will definitely be getting those too. Some of my driving will be solo/remote too though so still want/need the winch just to cover all bases.

[Spark45 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Spark45]

But... they are slow and hard work. In my younger days 4 of us got stuck on a hill outside Jenolan Caves - the road was getting too steep so stopped and we walked down to find we wouldn't be able to get up the other side. We then spent the next 18hrs getting the cars up the hill using the winch and mats under the wheels. At one point we drove out to Oberon to get pizza...

If you're going to be by yourself most of the time and play it safe with the tracks you attempt I'd say a hand winch could be a useful thing.

Hard work if/when an emergency happens is fine as that's all it'll be needed for. I'll definitely be playing it safe as far as tracks go but of course you never know.

[Spark45 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Spark45]

A hand winch stored in the car is probably more reliable, have seen a few instances where
electric winches didn't work when they really needed to, they do have to be maintained.

That had crossed my mind too.

[Spark45 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Spark45]

I'd consider a bullbar a fairly essential kit for a driving trip around central Australia...

Personally, I'm getting the AFN bullbar and Runva 11xp when I find time to get it installed
The Runva has a pretty good reputation as far as I've seen - on here and other forums

If I could could just click my fingers an have one appear on the front I'd do it obviously, ha.

Unfortunately reality calls, funds are limited and have to prioritize and be smart about what I spend.

[glen_ep Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close glen_ep]

It's going to be a tough decision - many pros and cons.

I've owned a hand winch for over 4 years and used it twice (once for someone else). It's always ready to work - no maintenance required other than a basic clean after use. Electronic winches often suffer from failure and require a functional vehicle to keep the battery charged. As others have said manual winches can be used in any direction and in scenarios where electronic may not (ie, upside down, under water). In some of those more extreme scenarios an electronic will leave you stranded until another (winch equipped) vehicle comes along.

It's true that they consume internal space, whilst electronics do not. However, both styles are a significant chunk of weight - an electronic one will require heavier duty coils to keep the front up (and coils will sag), whilst manuals can be left at home for the majority of easy trips and day-to-day driving, and only packed when expecting to deal with tougher conditions.

Bad thing is, it's a HELL OF A LOT OF WORK!! I once recovered my broken Prado on a rock step laden hill, by myself - 40m in 4+ hours! In rain, and followed by vehicle repairs, eventually getting home in early hours. This amount of work acts as a natural deterrent to winch prone activities - such as playing in mud.

For those that can't help themselves, ie, love playing in mud, there's no question about it, electronic.

It's going to depend on where/how you think you may get stuck, and how often you'll be alone. If regularly traveling in the outback/touring Aus and concerned about wet conditions - then forget the hand winch, cause those roads are far too long! If more concerned about the occasional mud hole on the way to your favourite hunting spot - than either will do. If regularly with others - most times a snatch recovery is used anyway.

In any case, be sure to buy a full recovery kit, on that big day there's a good chance you'll need it all. Also don't forget about other recovery methods - sometimes a spade and some locally sourced rocks can get a vehicle out of a bog hole easier, and with much less stress.

[Guest Close Guest]

If I could could just click my fingers an have one appear on the front I'd do it obviously, ha.

Unfortunately reality calls, funds are limited and have to prioritize and be smart about what I spend.

Get someone to fabricate a tow hitch to attach through the front bumper grill. Then get a hitch winch cradle. You can then move it from front to rear when needed. Still have to carry 40-50kg worth of weight in the back and suitable wiring to the front and rear position.

If you have a facelift, you could just get this http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Toyota-Pr...gAAOSwk1JWc160

[Spark45 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Spark45]

It's going to be a tough decision - many pros and cons.

I've owned a hand winch for over 4 years and used it twice (once for someone else). It's always ready to work - no maintenance required other than a basic clean after use. Electronic winches often suffer from failure and require a functional vehicle to keep the battery charged. As others have said manual winches can be used in any direction and in scenarios where electronic may not (ie, upside down, under water). In some of those more extreme scenarios an electronic will leave you stranded until another (winch equipped) vehicle comes along.

It's true that they consume internal space, whilst electronics do not. However, both styles are a significant chunk of weight - an electronic one will require heavier duty coils to keep the front up (and coils will sag), whilst manuals can be left at home for the majority of easy trips and day-to-day driving, and only packed when expecting to deal with tougher conditions.

Bad thing is, it's a HELL OF A LOT OF WORK!! I once recovered my broken Prado on a rock step laden hill, by myself - 40m in 4+ hours! In rain, and followed by vehicle repairs, eventually getting home in early hours. This amount of work acts as a natural deterrent to winch prone activities - such as playing in mud.

For those that can't help themselves, ie, love playing in mud, there's no question about it, electronic.

It's going to depend on where/how you think you may get stuck, and how often you'll be alone. If regularly traveling in the outback/touring Aus and concerned about wet conditions - then forget the hand winch, cause those roads are far too long! If more concerned about the occasional mud hole on the way to your favourite hunting spot - than either will do. If regularly with others - most times a snatch recovery is used anyway.

In any case, be sure to buy a full recovery kit, on that big day there's a good chance you'll need it all. Also don't forget about other recovery methods - sometimes a spade and some locally sourced rocks can get a vehicle out of a bog hole easier, and with much less stress.

I think you've sold me on the manual winch at this stage.

As covered it will only be used for emergencies, trips for me are about getting to the destination, not taking the roughest path there so genuinely hope I will never have to use it.

If I have to spend a few hours hard work every couple of years that's a well worthwhile trade for the winch being a fraction of the cost and not having to worry about maintaining it.

A little lost space is no concern at all. I will be getting roof-racks fitted as well for cargo and inside will only ever 1-3 people and the dog so there is space for that.

I do plan to do one outback tour doing something like VIC, SA, NT, QLD, NSW. But for now it will only be one, so manual winch still fits the bill I think.

Will do on the recovery kit and max track type product too.


Thanks all for your answers.