The QLD police blitz on 4x4s and caravan towing. .

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Light vehicle 19.2 is as quoted on previous pages. No distinction for ecs. Up to 75 ok through suspension and tyres. The esc specific rules are superceded.

[Tonz Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tonz]

See how tricky this stuff is and its interpretations.... i for one am at a bit of a loss . i'm not sure and this is why there should have been a free centre to go to to give the 4x4s an inspection , for the main reason being , education ..I personally think if the public have it clear they will generally conform .no fines needed , But just as this thread goes , its easy to think you know what is correct .

Also any change in laws or orders to blitz some issue , is money and a lot of it . the police have there orders and are trying to do there job but the on the spot fines and canaries 'as we would call it in the old day's '', are really un necessary.A 30 day notice for repairs would have done the job perfectly . just my opinion.

[AntVDM Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close AntVDM]

Can't attach a piccy (which is pretty frustrating btw) but I've copied this verbatium.

"The following information provides some general guidance about raising a vehicle’s height

Without ESC- A vehicle lift up to and including 75mm combining both suspension lift and tyre diameter increase (maximum suspension lift 50mm, maximum tyre diameter increase 50mm) is acceptable under self-certification. A vehicle lift between 76mm and 125mm inclusive, combining a suspension lift, a tyre diameter increase and a body lift (maximum suspension lift 50mm, maximum tyre diameter increase 50mm, maximum body lift 50mm) requires certification and testing by an Approved Person.

With ESC A suspension lift up to and including 50mm is acceptable under self-certification. A vehicle lift over 50 mm or due to a combination of any other lift (tyres, or body blocks) requires certification and testing by an Approved Person."

I'm honestly happy to be corrected over this as it'll unpucker my arse a bit but that seems to be pretty clear- There is clearly a distinction being made here between vehicles fitted with ESC. The way I read this is a suspension upgrade is fine- a change in tyre size or the fitting of body blocks is not.

This is my understanding too.
I got excited when I was reading through the regs and saw 75mm! Only to be brought back to earth that with ESC it's 50mm total no matter how you achieve the lift.

Ant

[Atherton Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Atherton]

Light vehicle 19.2 is as quoted on previous pages. No distinction for ecs. Up to 75 ok through suspension and tyres. The esc specific rules are superceded.

Do you have a link for that 19.2 mate? I tried to follow the link to the national guidelines from the department of infrastructure but their notes are saying exactly what the Queensland ones are (it'd also be an interesting argument with the police if you got pulled over as to which laws are enforced if they did differ) My understanding is that if you're in Queensland you have to abide by QLD rules...

[Brendos 150 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Brendos 150]

I still read the information above from the TMR website for Queensland as 50mm total combined lift for vehicles with ESC. That would mean I could only legally go a 1” lift with 265/70/17 Tyres I am running. A 2” lift with my Tyres would be illegal.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Ok, humble pie time. I have downloaded the pages and they are different to those I printed a couple of years ago which prompted me to go to 70 profile KO2s. Originally ESC vehicles were limited to suspension lift only and I fitted 65 profile Scorpians and then Qld adopted the NCOP with amendments called QCOP which allowed an increase which is when I went to 70 profile. This has has been revised as below:

Lifts through suspension only up to 50mm for ESC vehicles are legal without testing. Anything higher or that is a combination of two or more of suspension lift and/or larger tyres and/or body blocks at any height requires a lane change test and certification.

These regs are as at Feb 2018. I am not sure if there is an earlier revision showing this too.

A mate saw the blitz today and I have been told that old 4wds without ESC are not being pulled over unless they look to be over 125mm total lift. ALL modern 4wds, utes and wagons, were pulled over.

I guess for me I am lucky that the KO2s on the car are ready to be changed and I planned to do this in the next month or so. Guess that timeline has been advanced somewhat.

Bugger.

[AntVDM Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close AntVDM]

.

A mate saw the blitz today and I have been told that old 4wds without ESC are not being pulled over unless they look to be over 125mm total lift. ALL modern 4wds, utes and wagons, were pulled over.

.

I wonder how they're actually checking this. Do they have a list of all the default ride heights of all vehicles imported to Australia? Even then, they seem very a little bit straight from the factory. +/- 5mm.
Anyone had this done to them? How do they actually check?

Ant

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

They have a list. That I have seen. Road Vehicle Descriptor Database.

Checking advice that a particular Toyota dealer will do a recalibration which makes the legality issue go away. My local said outright NO.

[Atherton Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Atherton]

This is a pretty big deal breaker for the idea of purchasing new 4wds to take off road- one of the largest reasons I purchased a new 4wd (came from an 80 series) was that I could use it on and off road and have it be fairly capable doing both. This essentially means that everyone that's purchased a prado (and almost anything else modern) in the last 10-15 years is stuck with 30.5 inch tyres (or 31.6 in the case of the 200).

EDIT: Not surprised that the dealer wouldn't touch that to be honest, no way would they take that sort of liability on- Any change would have to come from Tojo themselves (which I doubt they'd do, and even if they did it'd only be on new vehicles). This is another reason why the future of 4wd mods could come from manufacturer supplied packs (like that new special edition Colorado and hilux which come with bigger tyres and bullbars etc.)

Maybe it's time to trade the 150 in on a duramax/ 6BT swapped GU? :/

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Spent time this morning researching and no good news. The sheet being used by the Police lists esc and non esc and what is ok and what needs a mod plate. Also they have lists of stock hub to guard dimensions. It is called Operation Lift aparently.

Toyota seem to only be able to reset factory esc settings which makes sense.

I am going to investigate going down the certifying engineer route and the certification for lane changes but that is not a short term fix. For me I just went the easy option and dropped to 65 profile which is fine for me because I needed tyres anyway. Meant I bought 5 instead of 4 though.

This blitz is for 2 weeks but then likely to be done again in the future. As caravans were also being pulled over and weighed I can only assume there are a number of drivers behind this.

I havent looked but was told that this position reflects NCOP and other states are likely to do the same, who knows.

Another thing I was told that at least one company's gvm upgrade was based on stock tyre sizes.

I cannot afford to be unroadworthy/unregistered/uninsured so until I get further into certification I will stick with stock tyre sizes. Camper and trailer will be running 70 profile...

[xlr8_87 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close xlr8_87]

This is a direct quote from Safety Cert Qld on their facebook page:

RECENT CRACK DOWN ON 4x4

We have been flooded with calls/emails regarding the recent crack down on Modified 4x4 so here's the rules:

ESC FITTED VEHICLES (Check with manufacturer if unsure)
*If your vehicle is fitted with ESC you're only allowed max. 2in spring lift ONLY

*You're NOT allowed to change wheels/tyres to a bigger size

*You're NOT allowed to run body blocks

***ESC TESTING outside of being done by the manufacturers - Bosch Australia do it at $30k per vehicle & that's not to say your vehicle will pass *** The machine to perform ESC testing is roughly $250k - sorry Safety Cert Qld does NOT have that machine & will not purchasing that machine

[Atherton Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Atherton]

Spent time this morning researching and no good news. The sheet being used by the Police lists esc and non esc and what is ok and what needs a mod plate.

Toyota seem to only be able to reset factory esc settings which makes sense.

I am going to investigate going down the certifying engineer route and the certification for lane changes but that is not a short term fix. For me I just went the easy option and dropped to 65 profile which is fine for me because I needed tyres anyway. Meant I bought 5 instead of 4 though.

This blitz is for 2 weeks but then likely to be done again in the future. As caravans were also being pulled over and weighed I can only assume there are a number of drivers behind this.

I havent looked but was told that this position reflects NCOP and other states are likely to do the same, who knows.

Another thing I was told that at least one company's gvm upgrade was based on stock tyre sizes.

I cannot afford to be unroadworthy /unregistered/uninsured so until I get further into certification I will stick with stock tyre sizes. Camper and trailer will be running 70 profile...

MJ from memory I remember you saying somewhere you're a mech engineer? Guessing you'd be more informed than most on this issue- Do you think we will get these rules changed or are we now stuck with them? Following on from that do you think that there will be an economical way of testing for ESC changes? Guess this could be a potential business opportunity for someone who wanted to buy the required bit of gear to test :/


I'd be guessing there'd be a lot of cranky people who have been the recipient of tickets in the past few days who were completely oblivious to the fact that they were driving roadworthy vehicles- if enough of them wrote to or called their local MP we might see some change in this field.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Couple of things. As I read it the lane change test is fairly straight forward. I know I did what zi re kon is tge test after we fitted the billies. Private road etc etc. But you need to be certified for it to count. That is the next step. My qualifications and general experience are fine, and some of that (welding exotic and dissimilar materials, heat treatment and so on) is most likely better than those assessing the application. It will come down to whether they are happy with my personal automotive experience rather than working for a manufacturer or fitting shop etc. I am still going to give it a go.

Next I cannot find where the changes to the rules were published in the gazette or other place. In fact the earlier version did not have a revision number and the rest of the QA niceties. Some engineers were even caught out and you would expect they are kept up to date. There are some petitions going into govt including one citing the failure to properly notify the public. If this is successful it will only delay the inevitable. Like a speeding ticket with a typo they will just reset it and go again so the best anyone caught could hope for I think is that their initial defect notice is quashed. As NCOP is now tge same supposedly it will require a huge effort to change that. NCOP was established with support from manufacturers and importers so you know they arent interested in making a better product unless they sell it such as the Ranger Raptor and Colorado thing.

[404pug Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 404pug]

With all of this talk of the police blitz does anyone have a link to the sheet they are using re. lifts? Specifically we need to know what the original ride heights are as determined by Toyota. I believe that trim heights are measured from the centre of the wheel to the guard and we really need to know what this figure is that the police are using. Pradopoint standard measure from bottom of rim to guard will be double trim height. Also, is there any leeway eg 50 mm lift is allowable but is this measured with full tanks/ empty tanks? Full load/empty? Fuel load makes a difference to mine. As an aside the heights for a Kakadu are greater than for a GXL, especially for the middle and higher settings so why can't the 50mm lift be based on that model?

[404pug Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 404pug]

Correction! The pradopoint measurement is obviously NOT double the trim height! BUT when I just measured mine there is a 10mm difference left to right so do I just get the police to measure the lhs or do they average the two sides? If there are say 4 passengers in the car do they have to get out? So many questions here.