Site changes

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Visitors please be aware:

Due to a recent change by administration; visitor access to Pradopoint has been restricted to the general section. To view all the Pradopoint topics and content you must now be a registered member and logged in.


Mick

EDIT - Started/moved thread here to discuss site changes and answer questions.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Re: Announcement for all site visitors

I would be interested to hear the reasoning behind this move. It seems like a bit of a step backwards to me. I for one probably never would have joined if i hadn't been able to look at all the good info available for a considerable time before i decided to become a member. I have tried to visit other forums that have severly restricted access for non members and as a result don't visit those sites.

Certainly i think that some parts could be restricted to members only, but this change means that probably 90% of the site is off limits to non members.

Cheers Andrew

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: Announcement for all site visitors

I would be interested to hear the reasoning behind this move. It seems like a bit of a step backwards to me. I for one probably never would have joined if i hadn't been able to look at all the good info available for a considerable time before i decided to become a member. I have tried to visit other forums that have severly restricted access for non members and as a result don't visit those sites.

Certainly i think that some parts could be restricted to members only, but this change means that probably 90% of the site is off limits to non members.

Cheers Andrew

This is a move from Admin and out of my hands. Part of some rolling changes as they build up to some significant site upgrades.

This thread was just to let visitors and non-logged in members what the go is, so they didn't think the missing topics were a site technical issue.

Mick

[Schaffer Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schaffer]

Re: Site changes

I agree with Andrew's throughts but I also agree with the idea. Sounds like I'm a bit of a fence sitter. PradoPoint has a pretty good reputation for knowledge sharing and it currently or has until recently made this available to all without any real concerns but as a member there has always been a puch through comments here and there about hiding licence plates numbers and not posting mobile phone numbers. The reason for this is personal protection and security. With the security changes that Mick has mentioned then posting lince plates and mobiles will be less of a security issue, altough should still be avoided.

I can't think of too many "good" 4wd forums which do not have the same security applied. Might be a very small area that is unsecured and allows guests to view.

[Matty80 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Matty80]

Re: Site changes

The reason for this is personal protection and security. With the security changes that Mick has mentioned then posting lince plates and mobiles will be less of a security issue, altough should still be avoided.

I think a lot of people concrens and reasons for and against were posted in the Pradopoint posting/membership poll? thread, so i won't go into any details of what I think - but would say I'm also a fence sitter!

Andrew's concerns are valid, but I too agree with the idea of a little restriction to some of the sections.

Be interesting to see what the final outcome of the administrator's alterations to PP are, and what gets implemented in the mean time. I'd hazard a guess and say that it's probably a little early to make final decsions about whether it will be good or bad - I know what it can be like to try and do a major over haul to a working system but keep everything operational at the same time!!! This would no doubt be a large task for all involved!

So i'll extend a thanks, for the efforts of maintaining PP for us to enjoy during the upgrade process!

[William Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close William]

Re: Site changes

I don't see the point of this thread. Team Piggy has decided to lock it from non-members and quite franky I don't believe anything we say or do will change his mind. I see it as an escalation of action regarding the recent breaches in forum rules. IE: Team Piggy doesn't want people who have been banned for a month to be able to read what others have been posting, fair enough, but at what cost? Anyway, what the heck, I might as well leave a comment......

I'm with Andrew on this one. Although it is restricting access to people who have misbehaved, it will be restricting exposure to the general public who:
a) Will freely be able to view valuable information that PP members have posted. As a contributor, I would want my ideas to extend to all prado owners, not just PP members.
b) Are less likey to join and become contributors like myself. I only joined as the community seemed friendly and stored a wealth of knowledge. As the forum is locked to this extent, it will be difficult to gauge this from the point of view of a newcomer.

Also, isn't PradoPoint.com funded partiallly or wholly via banner advertising? Without the entire public being able to provide sufficient views/webclicks, will this mean the next step by Team Piggy will be to charge existing and new members a monetary fee?

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Re: Site changes

schaffer wrote:
PradoPoint has a pretty good reputation for knowledge sharing and it currently or has until recently made this available to all without any real concerns but as a member there has always been a puch through comments here and there about hiding licence plates numbers and not posting mobile phone numbers. The reason for this is personal protection and security. With the security changes that Mick has mentioned then posting lince plates and mobiles will be less of a security issue, altough should still be avoided.

From a security point of view i think that the trip reports section, Particularly upcoming trips is the one area that should be restricted as we are advertising when we will be away from home. If a non member wants to read about a set of muddies for his car or how to wire a set of spotties, well thats why we posted that info in the first place, to help others.
Also with well over 7500 members and no real security checks for new members, chances are we already have a number of undesirables who can still view everything.

Cheers Andrew

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

Re: Site changes

I now understand why, but I also would point out that it is an anti-security alteration from a users point of view.

Consider this: I drop in to catch up on the forum activity at a public terminal operated by who knows what kind of person. Could be good, could be bad. To protect myself, I do not use these terminals for banking or anything requiring passwords as the possibility of keyloggers or network snooping are quite high in these kind of places. Once pradopoint restricts access, I either have to expose my login, or forget pradopoint from public terminals.

Bad move IMO. Create a members only section for private and sensitive stuff if you like entertaining yourselves with ineffective security, but making the whole site members only will just restrict members opportunities to use the site and also restrict potential members. I rarely join read restricted sites as there is no way of knowing what they offer, and there is plenty of content out there without needing yet another login. I suspect many others feel the same way.

IMHO

Michael

[Schaffer Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schaffer]

Re: Site changes

Just before everyone goes off about the changes being related to security and limiting peoples access, just remember it was only a sugestion of mine as to why and not the actual reason it was done. I am not part of the Administration or Moderation team and so a suggestion from me doesn't mean it is so.

Perhaps there is a site/forum upgrade that requires this. Maybe it's the result of some inderviduals behavoiur. Maybe it is something else.

As to the mention of Team Piggy. There is more than one Administator.

[Guest Close Guest]

Re: Site changes

Just before everyone goes off about the changes being related to security and limiting peoples access, just remember it was only a sugestion of mine as to why and not the actual reason it was done. I am not part of the Administration or Moderation team and so a suggestion from me doesn't mean it is so.
Perhaps there is a site/forum upgrade that requires this. Maybe it's the result of some inderviduals behavoiur. Maybe it is something else.
As to the mention of Team Piggy. There is more than one Administator.

Actually it is my work alone, none of the other Admins or mods are involved.
There is a number of reasons it is being trialed.
:arrow: Security / Access / Upgrade / User behaviour.

The site is still well searchable for anyone via Google which is also one of the main hit points for the site. So people will still find it. Just now if its not in the Guest access areas, they will have to join to gain said info. This gives a much truer report on just how many members etc we have.
Instead of the way it s now where ppl google it, come in as a guest and scrape the info they need, then dissapear.. Thanks very much..

Pretty well if you look you will see a lot of the other forums work this way as well.

I don't see the point of this thread. Team Piggy has decided to lock it from non-members and quite franky I don't believe anything we say or do will change his mind. I see it as an escalation of action regarding the recent breaches in forum rules. IE: Team Piggy doesn't want people who have been banned for a month to be able to read what others have been posting, fair enough, but at what cost? Anyway, what the heck, I might as well leave a comment......

I'm with Andrew on this one. Although it is restricting access to people who have misbehaved, it will be restricting exposure to the general public who:
a) Will freely be able to view valuable information that PP members have posted. As a contributor, I would want my ideas to extend to all prado owners, not just PP members.
b) Are less likey to join and become contributors like myself. I only joined as the community seemed friendly and stored a wealth of knowledge. As the forum is locked to this extent, it will be difficult to gauge this from the point of view of a newcomer.

Also, isn't PradoPoint.com funded partiallly or wholly via banner advertising? Without the entire public being able to provide sufficient views/webclicks, will this mean the next step by Team Piggy will be to charge existing and new members a monetary fee?

William.

You seem to have had a beef with me since the Zerosecta fiasco which eventuated in his month holiday for his actions towards the board and myself. Again, I was not the one to go against the rules, or to then abuse the Admins/mods with childish remarks and behaviour. Hence his short holiday. Sitting back and taking a breath and having a read and a think probably would have gone a long way before he clicked submit...

:arrow: Yes your partially correct , why give holidays or bans to people that are misbehaving or acting in a non compliant manner when they can still totally access the site anyway? Makes it a worthless exercise, in the long run it doesnt help to control the forum in any sane way really... Most of you have no idea on what goes on behind the scenes. Lets take the guest access issue we had about a year ago with another 4x4 forum.. Who didnt like what "some" members were saying about their manufacture of 4wd.. So were all plotting to join this forum and start a massive trolling attack and disruption.. Is that the kind of stuff we want? Certainly the Mods/admins dont.

:arrow: The forum is still totally searchable by non members via google, so it in no way restricts exposure to potential members/ posters.
:arrow: The adclicks are still visible to Guests. So no change there.
:arrow: Yes Advertising pays for the forum, But I can tell you most of it comes straight out of Aarons pocket.. again, a monetary charge has never been discussed between Aaron & the mod team. Paid advertising yes, but not membership as of yet. So I would prefer you dont use my name in a finger pointing of this nature, as it is not correct information.

Is it permanent? Who knows, I will be in contact with Aaron, to go over ther weblogs. It may be a positive outcome or a negative, it will show fairly quickly. I am then solely responsible and will accept responsibilty for my actions. But it may also be a good thing, and work for the best of the forum and its future.

Sometimes change can be a good thing people, let's not overlook that.... :idea:

[William Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close William]

Re: Site changes

IWilliam.
You seem to have had a beef with me since the Zerosecta fiasco which eventuated in his month holiday for his actions towards the board and myself.

It may seem like it, but no team piggy I don't have beef with you, I just tell it how I see it.

:arrow: Yes Advertising pays for the forum, But I can tell you most of it comes straight out of Aarons pocket.. again, a monetary charge has never been discussed between Aaron & the mod team. Paid advertising yes, but not membership as of yet. So I would prefer you dont use my name in a finger pointing of this nature, as it is not correct information.

Apologies, seeing as you are the site admin, I assumed you were in charge of the financing side of things, which would make you the decision maker on the matter of membership fees.

Also, if posts are totally searchable via google, doesn't this mean the "security" is somewhat compromised?


Honestly this change bothers me as I have to log in every time (automatic signing does not work for me) to check for new posts (which I do frequently). I do this across multiple devices whether it be my phone, iPad or laptop...

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Re: Site changes

Team Piggy wrote
The site is still well searchable for anyone via Google which is also one of the main hit points for the site.

Hmmmm........ I just logged out and did a google search for something i knew i would find on PP, i found the said thread in google but when i tried to access it it askede me to log on first? Maybe its just me, i have the same issue with other forums when i am searching for something, i get to the link but can't access the info.

Cheers Andrew

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

Re: Site changes

I now understand why, but I also would point out that it is an anti-security alteration from a users point of view.

Consider this: I drop in to catch up on the forum activity at a public terminal operated by who knows what kind of person. Could be good, could be bad. To protect myself, I do not use these terminals for banking or anything requiring passwords as the possibility of keyloggers or network snooping are quite high in these kind of places. Once pradopoint restricts access, I either have to expose my login, or forget pradopoint from public terminals.

Bad move IMO. Create a members only section for private and sensitive stuff if you like entertaining yourselves with ineffective security, but making the whole site members only will just restrict members opportunities to use the site and also restrict potential members. I rarely join read restricted sites as there is no way of knowing what they offer, and there is plenty of content out there without needing yet another login. I suspect many others feel the same way.

IMHO

Michael

As far as logon security is concerned there is none as the login process is HTTP hence in the clear on the network so if can be sniffed. If you save your user/pass for auto login then everytime you connect a cookie is passed in the clear from your browser that has your user/pass in. This cookie can also be sniffed and replayed. Only way to fix this is to make the auth system HTTPS.

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

Re: Site changes

As far as logon security is concerned there is none as the login process is HTTP hence in the clear on the network so if can be sniffed. If you save your user/pass for auto login then everytime you connect a cookie is passed in the clear from your browser that has your user/pass in. This cookie can also be sniffed and replayed. Only way to fix this is to make the auth system HTTPS.

Agreed. I would prefer https if we are talking security.

I don't have a lot of problem using http from known networks though. There is a much smaller risk. Public networks like coffee shops and internet cafe's have much greater potential for sniffing and compromised machines.

I'm not against change. If these restrictions were accompanied by https for instance, I would consider it a benefit.

Michael

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

Re: Site changes

I don't have a lot of problem using http from known networks though. There is a much smaller risk. Public networks like coffee shops and internet cafe's have much greater potential for sniffing and compromised machines.

Yup public wireless is a smorgasbord of usernames and passwords. The other problem is most people use the same password all the time. Hence if I have your PP password, I may well have your online banking password.