Bull Bars Under Threat

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

Lionel wrote
So, to those of us who are against it, and I can see your reasoning and respect your point of view, please argue for an exemption for 4wd's/country vehicles, rather than outright rejection of the regulations.

I see a few problems with this argument, firstly you are saying cars need to be more pedestrian friendly so lets change the law, OH but not for my 4WD because that would never hurt a pedestrian :wink: I would have thought that 4WDrives where exactly the type of vehicles that these new laws are aimed at.

Anyway i fail what to see what owning a 4WD has to do with getting an exemption for having a bullbar? Surely it is the circumstances that the vehicle is used in rather than the type of vehicle that matters. Under your logic soccer mums driving a 4WD that never leaves the city can have a bullbar, but a city based travelling Rep that does 100,000 kms a year in the country, often at night, trying to make it home cant have have a bullbar on his commodore.

Once you start asking for exemptions it becomes a mine field. Maybe we should be encouraging that a voluntary uptake of the standards be brought in, safety is a big factor for a lot of purchasers so i don't thimk this would be to hard to market.

I have rather enjoyed the banter in this topic, despite those on the other side of the argument being a bit misguided i genuinly think that your heart is in the right place. Just a pity that i am right and you are wrong :P :P :P ultimately time will tell who wins the battle.

I might make this my last post on this topic for a while (is that cheering i can hear), Need to dedicate some time to researching the type of bullbar i want for my next 4B.

Cheers Andrew

[dereki Member Find all posts View Profile Close dereki]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

FYI, just saw this on Wikipedia..

ADR 42/xx (where xx designates a version number), which states (in part) that:

"No vehicle shall be equipped with any object or fitting, not technically essential to such vehicle, which protrudes from any part of the vehicle so that it is likely to increase the risk of bodily injury to any person."

This requirement is not specifically aimed at bullbars but does effectively prescribe requirements for their construction. ADR 42/00, the first version of this rule, applied to vehicles built from July 1988.

Are bullbars already non-compliant but tollerated in current form. I am sure someone could do a study that would "prove" that any bull bar would increase the risk of bodily injury to any person.

Fishing rod holders are certainly banned under this.

D

[Matty80 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Matty80]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

FYI, just saw this on Wikipedia..

"No vehicle shall be equipped with any object or fitting, not technically essential to such vehicle, which protrudes from any part of the vehicle so that it is likely to increase the risk of bodily injury to any person."

Are bullbars already non-compliant but tollerated in current form. I am sure someone could do a study that would "prove" that any bull bar would increase the risk of bodily injury to any person.

Fishing rod holders are certainly banned under this.

D

Bullbars are technically essential when travelling offroad, travelling along highways, when parking in shopping centres.
Fishing rod holders are technically essential when doing the afore mentions and taking your fishing rods with you!

So i guess that means that they are compliant under the current ADRs.

[Schaffer Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schaffer]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

Fishing rod holders are technically essential when doing the afore mentions and taking your fishing rods with you!

So i guess that means that they are compliant under the current ADRs.

No they are not (but is slightly debatable and open to intepretation by the copper on duty). Fishing rods can be stored within the vehcile, on the roof, etc... Anything that protudes in front of the dumper considered illegal as is the sides of the vehicle. Many of the fishing rod holders do not even lock the fishing rod in place which could be considered a potential hazard.
eg:


Have a read of this:
Australian Design Rule (ADR) 42.9.1
It is an anti everything site but worth a read.

Tales of woe for people who have been fined for having a finishing rod holder on the bullbar
http://www.westernangler.com.au/archive/2/59141
http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Topic/...d_Holders.aspx
http://forum.australia4wd.com/index....123-rta-rules/
http://northcoastfishingnsw.com.au/f...hp?f=62&t=1778

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

Hey, is this a compliant EU standard Bull bar :?: :?: :?:

[Justo Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Justo]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

It probably is compliant because its totally useless for any practical use in Aust... :lol:

[Schaffer Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schaffer]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

It probably is compliant because its totally useless for any practical use in Aust... :lol:

Looks like it would be Kangaroo compliant lol

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

Bullbars again...

New standards for pedestrian-friendly bullbars

[Jenko67 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Jenko67]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

HI All,

I work for the qld govt and worked in Charleville and Emerald for a number of years (2000-2004). All govt vehicles in this area (and other outback areas) have bullbars or protection bars to protect them from the damage animals cause. I lost count of the amount of times I hit kangaroos, pigs, sheep and even emus.... You try to avoid them but at 100km/h I am not going to swerve and kill myself.... The bullbars have saved me and reduced the damage to vehicles and have saved the govt heaps of money from repairs to cars and the downtime for when the vehicle is off the road. The people making these decisions have no idea what it is like trying to drive from charleville to cunnamulla during the night or at dawn... The animals are everywhere. Yes bullbars in suburban areas are generally not needed but how can it be controlled. Remember people kill people, not bullbars.... The qld govt would be mad to agree to this.

[tassie tiger Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close tassie tiger]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

Lionel wrote
So, to those of us who are against it, and I can see your reasoning and respect your point of view, please argue for an exemption for 4wd's/country vehicles, rather than outright rejection of the regulations.

I might make this my last post on this topic for a while (is that cheering i can hear), Need to dedicate some time to researching the type of bullbar i want for my next 4B.

Cheers Andrew

I thought the same thing when I stuck away for a bit........... you'll be back! 8)

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

HI All,

I work for the qld govt and worked in Charleville and Emerald for a number of years (2000-2004). All govt vehicles in this area (and other outback areas) have bullbars or protection bars to protect them from the damage animals cause. I lost count of the amount of times I hit kangaroos, pigs, sheep and even emus.... You try to avoid them but at 100km/h I am not going to swerve and kill myself.... The bullbars have saved me and reduced the damage to vehicles and have saved the govt heaps of money from repairs to cars and the downtime for when the vehicle is off the road. The people making these decisions have no idea what it is like trying to drive from charleville to cunnamulla during the night or at dawn... The animals are everywhere. Yes bullbars in suburban areas are generally not needed but how can it be controlled. Remember people kill people, not bullbars.... The qld govt would be mad to agree to this.

Welcome to the discussion Jenko.

I understand your point, and it has been already covered. The proposal is about requiring bull bars to be pedestrian friendly, and the paper recognises the legitimate need for protection from animal strike. As you point out, it is very difficult to regulate the use of bull bars in the city, and we already know that pedestrians do come into contact with vehicles at speeds where pedestrian friendly design will reduce trauma and death.

Really, this thread should be titles "Bull Bars Under Threat of Change"

I wonder how much of the resistance to this proposal is based on a knee-jerk response fuelled by the ARB's of this world claiming that it is not possible to make a pedestrian friendly bull bar? Based on the little up-start SmartBar efforts to date, this is clearly not as difficult as they would have us believe.

Michael

[croozza Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close croozza]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

I said it once, and I will say it again......
Instead of banning bullbars, why dont they look at the reason why pedestrians are getting hit by vehicles.
It is easy to play the blame game, but what does that achieve!

[yowie Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close yowie]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

The following is a reply from Senator Barnaby Joyce:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________________________

Senator Barnaby Joyce
Shadow Minister for Regional Development, Local Government and Water
Leader of The Nationals in the Senate
LNP Senator for Queensland
22nd February 2011

No answers on bullbar issue

Regional Australians have been concerned in the past couple of months about reports that European standards might be applied to Australian bullbars potentially compromising safety of vehicle occupants.
“Although the Labor government has ruled out a ‘ban’ of bullbars, there are still many questions left unanswered about the application of a European standard to Australian conditions. I didn’t see too many kangaroos last time I was in Europe” Senator Joyce said today.
“In all fairness, I do not think that a European road is comparable to the Mitchell-St George Road at dawn or dusk for example.
“Officials from the Department of Infrastructure and Transport could not provide information about how many deaths or injuries are actually caused by bullbars at the moment. They couldn’t provide a guarantee that a European standard would be suited to Australian conditions and there was no clear indication of exactly what a European standard would mean for Australian vehicle owners in practice.
“At one stage an official admitted that they ‘Haven’t done any investigations on any of the current bullbars’.
“The bottom line is the current proposal appears half-baked.
“We are fully aware of the consequences to pedestrians of when they are hit by a car; but we also have to be aware of the consequences to a mother and child driving along a rural road who hits a kangaroo or a cow on their way home from school of an afternoon.
“Nobody wants pedestrian deaths, but we do not want to put people driving on country roads at risk either.”

More information – Matt Canavan 0458 709 433
<<MEDIA RELEASE - No answers on bullbar issue.docx>>


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[babs Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close babs]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

Saw this today

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/bull ... 1b6s0.html

Barnaby talking again

[xlr8_87 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close xlr8_87]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

Just received this via 4wd action:

"MEDIA RELEASE

The Hon Catherine King MP
Parliamentary Secretary for Infrastructure and Transport
24 February 2011
CK006/2011
Pedestrian Safety and Bull Bars

The Parliamentary Secretary for Infrastructure and Transport, Catherine King, restated again that the Government will not be banning bull bars.

"Over recent weeks I have received strong feedback through the consultation process associated with the Regulation Impact Statement (RIS) proposing the adoption of an international standard on pedestrian safety," Ms King said.

"Following careful consideration of the views and concerns put by individuals and stakeholders, I have decided that the proposal is not suitable for Australian conditions and I have directed the Department to withdraw the Regulation Impact Statement," Ms King said.

"While the Government is committed to improving the safety of pedestrians, we also recognise that bull bars play a positive role in the safety of vehicle occupants.

"In no circumstances will the Government consider banning bull bars or contemplate any lessening of the protection they provide. We are committed to ensuring that people remain fully protected in animal strikes and other hazardous situations where bull bars play a key role," Ms King said.

Ms King has now asked Department to consult with interested parties on the options for improving pedestrian safety."