Bull Bars Under Threat

[Seththecursed Member Find all posts View Profile Close Seththecursed]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeees this opened up a BIG Can of worms.I said this would happen about Six months ago when the Pedestrian was hit In Adelaide.This one incident started the BullBar wagon rolling again.And on the question about 4wdrives being banned from the city limits,What would all of the Mothers do when they can't drive there Toorac Tractors to drop the Kids off to school.Any way walk out in front of me and you will suffer the consiquences,Pedestrians think that they have wright of way some times I'm sure.And the Cyclists,I use to be one of these,If you abay the rules and stay in the bike lane and at single abreast you should not have an incident. And as with any means of road use, you always have to have your'e witts about you.Dont live in the dream world like so many out there.

To be fair pedestrians do have right of way sometimes. Also I believe it is up to us as responsible road users to keep an eye out for pedestrians even if they are in the wrong. If you hit a pedestrian and kill them even if it is not your fault its going to be something that stays with you for the rest of your life. What are you going to tell the victims family "Its not my fault" I would assume in a lot of pedestrian accidents the pedestrian was in the wrong but IMO the driver is also at fault for not seeing the potential accident before it happened(I know sometimes accidents are unavoidable no matter what you do). When I did my motorcycle safety course they teach you to see potential accidents before they happen because no matter who is at fault the motorcyclist always comes of worse in an accident.

[yowie Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close yowie]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

This caught my eye today: http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-ne ... 19wye.html

Check the poll at the bottom. Its not just regulators or bull bars we need to be concerned about. Many people believe 4wd's are inappropriate in city streets.

It's a form of discrimination against 4WD's. Nothing mentioned about non-4WD's, work vans, utes, small trucks, large trucks, B-doubles, and anything I missed, driving on a city street and sporting a front bar.

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Definition from the Anti-Discrimination Board of NSW.


What is discrimination?

Discrimination occurs when someone is treated unfairly because they belong to a particular group of people or have a particular characteristic.

Many people have fixed ideas about groups of people who are different from themselves. If we aren’t careful, this can lead us to discriminate against people who belong to those groups.

In NSW many types of discrimination are against the law. The laws dealing with discrimination help give everyone an equal chance.

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Yowie.

[Prado887 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Prado887]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat


no worries Tassie Tiger i knew what you meant if i was on that ferry south
i'd have other things on my mind such as a nice night or two at the old bakery inn launceston then down and accross to where the big trees are :wink:
cheers mate

Ryan

[celwar Member Find all posts View Profile Close celwar]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

Many people believe 4wd's are inappropriate in city streets.

Drifting OT a little I guess but I wonder how many of these same people will turn away a 4wd when it arrives to rescue them or their loved ones when the next freak storm hits their suburb?
Sorry, you can't take us because you are not driving a Prius

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

Article from the Northern Territory News

[Schaffer Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schaffer]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

Would be interesting to know, from a statistic perspective, if there is a particular brand of bar that is more likley to see an injury to a pedestrian?

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

Would be interesting to know, from a statistic perspective, exactly how many crashes involving injury or death can be directly attributed to the bullbar?

[prh Member Find all posts View Profile Close prh]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

I suspect that while correlative studies may be feasible by accessing data from hospital trauma units and police accident investigations, a direct causal link between bull-bars and pedestrian trauma may be difficult or impossible to establish.

There's so many factors to consider, not least of which is the height of the vehicle relative to the pedestrian. The bull bar per se may not be the actual culprit.

Money might be better spent on driver education. Maybe make it mandatory for purchasers of large vehicles such as 4x4's to undertake a course of vehicle appreciation - things like handling, increased braking distance, driving to conditions?

No simple answer that I can see.

Paul

[Schaffer Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schaffer]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

Money might be better spent on driver education. Maybe make it mandatory for purchasers of large vehicles such as 4x4's to undertake a course of vehicle appreciation - things like handling, increased braking distance, driving to conditions?

Realistically there should be continous driver testing throughout each indervidual drivers life. Probably every 5 - 10 years and maybe more frequent for drivers involved in moving passangers such as taxis and buses.

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

I suspect that while correlative studies may be feasible by accessing data from hospital trauma units and police accident investigations, a direct causal link between bull-bars and pedestrian trauma may be difficult or impossible to establish.

There's so many factors to consider, not least of which is the height of the vehicle relative to the pedestrian. The bull bar per se may not be the actual culprit.

As far a pedestrian safety is concerned, this is tested with dummies and science, in just the same way as driver and passenger safety has been improved. As we are all aware, many of us owe our lives to this process that resulted in effective seatbelts, crumple zones, airbags, etc, etc. The results speak for themselves.

There is no reason to suggest that using the same process to make vehicles more pedestrian friendly has not and will not reduce pedestrian trauma. This will drive changes to the design and use of bull bars, especially in our built up areas.

Money might be better spent on driver education. Maybe make it mandatory for purchasers of large vehicles such as 4x4's to undertake a course of vehicle appreciation - things like handling, increased braking distance, driving to conditions?

No simple answer that I can see.

Paul

Agreed, there is no simple answer. Spending the money better is not really an option - we are passengers in the drive to improve the prospects for pedestrians involved in vehicle impacts as this is a product of the major vehicle markets and their associated vehicle manufacturers. There is always room to improve driver and pedestrian behaviour through education though.

This is not about blaming the pedestrians, nor is it about blaming the drivers. Its about accepting that there will continue to be impacts between vehicles and pedestrians and doing the best job of reducing the resulting trauma.

Causes and blame (when appropriate) in each individual case is determined by the Police and the Coroner's office.

[croozza Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close croozza]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

There seems to be alot of people talking about driver training or testing.
Why does it always have to be the drivers fault, the amount of people that have walked out infront of me without looking is unbelievable, luckly enough I have never hit one and have seen them well before they have seen me. Just a though, why can't everyone take responsability for their own actions, work together as a group and stop blaming each other, I will always have a steel bullbar on my vehicle, it is protection for me and my family in the event of animal strike or other in remote areas, it is also handy in city areas, I will always look before crossing a road, even when the pedestrian crossing gives me the green light, It is about ensuring your environment is safe for you.

[yowie Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close yowie]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

There seems to be alot of people talking about driver training or testing.
Why does it always have to be the drivers fault, the amount of people that have walked out infront of me without looking is unbelievable, luckly enough I have never hit one and have seen them well before they have seen me. Just a though, why can't everyone take responsability for their own actions, work together as a group and stop blaming each other, I will always have a steel bullbar on my vehicle, it is protection for me and my family in the event of animal strike or other in remote areas, it is also handy in city areas, I will always look before crossing a road, even when the pedestrian crossing gives me the green light, It is about ensuring your environment is safe for you.

Good comment.

Roads are made for vehicles, not pedestrians, however, there are plenty of drop-kicks who will walk in front of vehicles regardless. If you are stupid enough to walk in front of a moving vehicle on a road and get knocked on your arse (unless walking on a marked foot crossing), don't blame the driver of the vehicle.

Yowie.

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

Okay. To summarise, the issue should not be about banning bullbars, or 4wds, or to try and blame drivers or passengers for each crash.

Rather, it should be about improved vehicle designs, improved manufacturing standards and improved road safety planning. And we should all be able to agree to this, right?

[yowie Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close yowie]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

or to try and blame drivers or passengers for each crash.

While you may not want to blame anyone for a vehicle/vehicle or a vehicle/pedestrian collision, if every pedestrian and vehicle driver performed to their best, there would be no collisions. Unfortunately, someone makes an error/mistake/miscalculation, which is human nature, and someone will be killed or injured. You will not stop it, and someone will be held accountable.

Rather, it should be about improved vehicle designs, improved manufacturing standards and improved road safety planning. And we should all be able to agree to this, right?[/quote]

I agree with this quote about improvements all round. Vehicle manufacturers have money to spend on improvements, however, road safety depends on government spending, and not all of the allocated money ends up where it should be.

Yowie.

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

Re: Bull Bars Under Threat

Okay. To summarise, the issue should not be about banning bullbars, or 4wds, or to try and blame drivers or passengers for each crash.

Rather, it should be about improved vehicle designs, improved manufacturing standards and improved road safety planning. And we should all be able to agree to this, right?

Agreed.