CARBON TAX: The truth, the lies and the humour

[Richoson Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Richoson]

BVX
Congratulations, you just passed economics 101. The facts are no matter what goodie two shoes do, whether its geeting banks to disclose consumer credit issues better, getting lawyers and insolvency experts to disclose the basis on how they charge fees, or having business pay for the polluting ways, it all boils down to the same thing. WE PAY FOR IT. All charges, costs, imposts etc on business find there way to the consumer. In most cases taxes (or tax equivilents including levies, pricing rules,) flow to the governement. So how will the governemnt use the funds to clean up the mess and keep polution down? KNuck Fows!!! and the government says the system will force the top 500 to produce with less pollution.... Pigs arse, where is their incentive to save us from paying. You guessed it, there isn't!!

I nominate Richoson for Prime Minister (I know he comes from Joe Bjelke peterson (spelling) country, but don't you worry about that). His profile pic displays the attitude needed for a new prime Minister that will put an end to this crud and he will open up all national forests for 4wding. AJ120 can be his 2IC. He is a visionary and action man that will see all motor vehicles equipped with low cost rock sliders. Given my obvious skills in talkin reel good, I will do all press statements and policy dokuments. There we have the start of the 4WDing First party.

Policy 1: All non 4wd vehicles will pay a nuisence tax for being on the road. The closer the vehicle is to the tar, the higher the tax. We will call it the Too close to carbon and Tar tax.
Policy 2: An annual levy will apply against all vehicles deemed unsafe for not having a bull bar and spotties. We will call it the Your a danger to yourself levy.

Hi MLC

And our catch phrase will be "Bitumen - A blatant waste of taxpayers money"

See ya on the tracks.

[blackvx Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close blackvx]

I like it, I'll be looking out for your party at the next elections......

[MidLifeCrisis Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close MidLifeCrisis]

Hi MLC

And our catch phrase will be "Bitumen - A blatant waste of taxpayers money"

See ya on the tracks.

Love it!

PS change your photo back! You are stuffing up AJ120's platform of "the world is my toilet".

BVX, this is not a your party, it is OUR party. Thats right we are here for YOU! Protecting YOUR right to 4wd, YOUR right to fart without fear or favour or carbon tax, YOUR interests! YOUR rights to send a clear message to Juuulia, "someone should tax my earlobes by the tonne", Gilliard that her carbon tax is a no-goer!

Vote1: 4wding First,

Policy 3: Environment. Bitumen causes cancer and scars the natural environment, it is banned.
Policy 4: Environment: Beer is 100% natural and will be exempt from All taxes. Girlie drinks include artificial substances and will include all previous taxes applicable to beer, except when consumed by females on 4wd trips. The exemption shall be known as the back to nature-the camper may be rocking exemption.


(yes, I'm bored again.....)

[Richoson Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Richoson]

Policy 5> There will be no such thing as a "locked gate".

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

What about a policy that gives you a rebate for driving off road.

[Keeper Member Find all posts View Profile Close Keeper]

Agree - sort of like a remote zoning allowance with a sliding scale of advantage for areas with mud, rocks and the number of times you are bogged (which would lead into the winch allowance)

[MidLifeCrisis Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close MidLifeCrisis]

Policy 5> There will be no such thing as a "locked gate".

Damn! See, that is why YOU our the chosen one Richo. Soo wish I was going on ther 2011 GTG. Expect there should be the inaugrural "4wding First Party" Caucus meeting anyway.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Hi MLC

And our catch phrase will be "Bitumen - A blatant waste of taxpayers money"

See ya on the tracks.

Funny you should say that, I have been meaning to ask Piggy if he would knock up a sticker for the back of the Prado saying exactly that!!

I guess seeing as I have been elected onto the comittee for the 4WDrive first party I should probably get one sooner rather than later.

Don't get me started on Joolia n' Swanny and uugh Browny, worse than Media Mike Rann and that is saying something.

NTP WroteSo basically this is a Coal Tax with two purposes: (1) To dissuade the use of coal as a form of energy in Australia and (2) to help Government build revenue through a new tax.

And of course Joolia assures us the coal industry will continue to expand, so that only leaves point number 2.

Cheers Andrew

[tassie tiger Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close tassie tiger]

As stated earlier I am against this stupid carbon tax however if you are interested in making up your own mind (based on science) these two books are a good read. Neither is directly related to climate change but address it through history;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaps...ail_or_Succeed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Short...rly_Everything

The first one is a bit heavy but the second is made easy by Bryson's witty writing.

So you get an idea of the science without the hype, hypocrisy or BS sprouted from both sides of politics.

cheers

PS enough seriousness - god shes got a fat asssssss.....

[Richoson Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Richoson]

OK Folks

This thread is leading to a new thread, "The 4WDriving First Party Thread". Suggested guidelines

1. Fun, light hearted.
2. No nastiness (except to non 4WDrivers, they deserve what they get)
3. No personal attacks (despite my brave appearance, I'm very sensitive)
4. The inaugral meeting be chaired at the 2011 GTG.

Regards, Richo. (Vote 1 for Richo for PM)

[Richoson Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Richoson]

PS: The Pradpoint Fairy should be elected as the Party Patron.

See ya on the free tracks, Richo.

[MidLifeCrisis Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close MidLifeCrisis]

OK Folks

This thread is leading to a new thread, "The 4WDriving First Party Thread". Suggested guidelines

1. Fun, light hearted.
2. No nastiness (except to non 4WDrivers, they deserve what they get)
3. No personal attacks (despite my brave appearance, I'm very sensitive)
4. The inaugral meeting be chaired at the 2011 GTG.

Regards, Richo. (Vote 1 for Richo for PM)

It is plainly obvious that I can claim to be the Karl Marx of the 4wding First party. As such I will crate it and post the party's temporary leaders. Richo, as I will not be at the 2011 GTG I do expect an honourable mention and ceremonial monument when my time comes to move on to the great 4wd track in the sky.

The thread can be found here

[MidLifeCrisis Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close MidLifeCrisis]

What about a policy that gives you a rebate for driving off road.

This has been considered but may cause issues when all the bitumen is ripped up.

[Deeptank Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Deeptank]

Here's what New Scientist magazine thinks of the effcetiveness of this fiasco of a tax proposal.

I am all for a clean environment... too bad this 'strategy' will have zero impact. The devil's in the details - as the saying goes.

This is so insulting I have to refrain from further comment as it would only come out as a tirade of abuse from a tourette's sufferer...

---

Australia's shiny new carbon tax is an empty promise

18:22 11 July 2011 by Fred Pearce
For similar stories, visit the Energy and Fuels Topic Guide

Australia's shiny new carbon tax, announced on Sunday, is unlikely to change the country's status as the largest per-capita emitter of greenhouse gases in the developed world.

Loopholes threaten to undermine its modest promise to cut emissions by 5 per cent by 2020.

First, emissions from forestry, farming and cars are exempt from the tax. These are a significant omission. Some years, deforestation is responsible for as much as a quarter of Australia's emissions.

Second, the biggest emitters are being protected. Prime minister Julia Gillard has promised tax rebates to key industries, including electricity generation and steel makers of between 66 and 94.5 per cent. The scale of the rebates may undermine the incentive to cut emissions.

Australia's climate policies have a long history of being confused and contradictory. It signed up to the Kyoto Protocol in 1997, but only after securing permission to increase its emissions by 8 per cent.
Kyoto targets

Since 1990, the baseline year for the Kyoto targets, its emissions from burning fossil fuels have in fact risen by around 30 per cent – more, even, than US emissions. But it has, in effect, offset its rising industrial emissions by reducing deforestation: levels in 1990 were particularly high.

Gillard reports that emissions are growing by 2 per cent a year, but says her carbon taxes would set the country on course for a 5 per cent reduction in emissions by 2020 relative to levels in 2000. But, once again, this ignores emissions from forests and farming. What's more, the decision to set a target relative to 2000 emissions is strategic. The growth in emissions between 1990 and 2000 means a 5 per cent reduction amounts to significantly less when put in the context of 1990 emissions.

In fact, the target could allow Australia to increase its emissions. According to Bill Hare, chief scientist at the non-governmental organisation Climate Analytics, once deforestation and the base year are taken into account a 5 per cent reduction could see Australia's real emissions as much as 26 per cent higher than 1990 levels by 2020. It is a far cry from the call of scientists at the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change for cuts in emissions from developed nations of 25 to 40 per cent by 2020.
Industry cries foul

This hasn't stopped Australian industry from crying foul, and claiming that the measures will bankrupt key companies. The country gets 80 per cent of its electricity from burning coal, the dirtiest major fuel. And it relies heavily on energy-guzzling industries like steel and aluminium. The combined effect is per capita emissions three times those typical in Europe.

The total bill for the new carbon tax is likely to be around A$23 billion ($25 billion), paid by the country's top 500 emitters. Greenpeace estimates that the top four polluters – mining companies BHP Billiton and Rio Tinto, oil and gas company Woodside and steel giant BlueScope – should be liable for A$1.1 billion. But the rebates will dramatically reduce this.

The money raised by the tax will go to set up a Clean Energy Finance Corporation, to promote renewables, and to compensate households for higher fuel bills.

In 2015, the fixed tax will be replaced by a market-based emissions trading system, similar to that in the European Union. Companies could trade their permits internationally. This will increase further the uncertainty about the future trajectory of Australian emissions.

---

The original article is at: http://www.newscientist.com/article/...y-promise.html

[Danda Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Danda]

yes we need to do something , but WHAT will taxing do ? = NOTHING !!! this is my whole point, if you truly want to reduce emmisions, wind ,solar, nuclear, and what do they do ? cut the rebate on solar !!! which in book means thier more interested in revenue raising than actually DOING something..........