CARBON TAX: The truth, the lies and the humour

[PUNKAH Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close PUNKAH]

JOOLIAR and B^M BASHER BROWN want "Green renewable energy" but they can't bring themselves to build dams with power stations on them, how serious are they about climate change? Or is it just a tax to fill the coffers they soon emptied after taking office?

[tassie tiger Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close tassie tiger]

It would be interesting to know how many of the people who are anti Juliar and her carbon tax actualy voted for the labor party. Just wondering if everybody here is a liberal voter or a convert. I am interested to see if the political mood is shifting.
Pity that Tony is the only other option, if the Libs had a real contender for the job they would be in like Flynn (whoever he was).
On climate change... the warmer it gets the more sea water will evaporate and the more it will rain eventualy leading to global cooling and the growth of more plants and trees which in turn will store more carbon. It will also lead to more bikinis on beaches and shorter skirts. I can just see Julia in a bikini... now I feel sick!!!!!!

Errol was Errol Flynn - A Tasmanian Actor that made it big in hollywood and was somewhat of a ladies man - hence 'in like flynn"

Just to correct you on the climate change bit here is the main problem;

As it is the climate is warming. Has been for 1000's of years. Tasmania actually had glaciers as short a time ago as 18000 years ago which is within the life of aboriginal people down here. So it is getting warmer. We came out of the last big ice age as a result of one thing. The isthmus between north and south america (now mexico) rose up due to tectonic plate movement and cut off the gulf stream from going between the two. This allowed the warm waters from the equator to make their way up towards alaska and this began the melt that we are still experiencing. The ocean is warmed from the equator and makes its way up towards alaska, says hello to the deadliest catch crew, and is met with cold water from the arctic melt. Cold water is denser and flows to the bottom of the ocean and the mix continues.

Now heres the bad news. At the moment the amount of cold water melt is enough to keep it going or to keep it in balance so that it continues. If the rate of melt goes up too much then the cold water can stop the flow. That is the amount of cold water is so much that the cold backs up and the warm slows. There is evidence that the gulf stream has actually stuttered in recent history.

So our planet may well warm up and is nice and green in some parts however once the gulf stream stops the warm water no longer moves to the to the poles and we rapidly decline into an ice age. An ice age that would cover nth america and europe in ice that would be make life impossible in those areas.

A good example of how quickly things can change, when krakatoa erupted in 1883 the resultant ash caused the climate to crash for that season with many crops failing around the world as the seed would not germinate.

Earlier, in 1814 the global temperature dropped by .07deg due to solar anomolies and vulcanic eruptions, and caused widespread famine and disease. The Thames froze solid.

So by all means it is reasonable to bag out the carbon tax that this stupid govt has put forward. Its a joke to placate the greens and others. But the science is real simply because its history repeating itself. Humans would be influencing the climate simply because the coal and oil we burn is carbon, laid down during the carboniferous period when CO2 levels and temperatures were high (in the 20's, ours is around 14). The foliage and micro-animals flourished, died, got covered over, compressed and turned into oil, coal and gas. We dig it up and put it back up there. As science teaches you cannot destroy any thing, just change its characteristics, so the carbon goes somewhere. Every year we take out of the ground and put into the atmosphere;

More than 31,000 million barrells of oil. (Thats almost 5 million million litres of oil)
Over 6 Billion tonnes of coal.

And its this small rate of change that may be our undoing.

Now most of us arent rocket scientists but it would take a fairly clever person to argue that that is not going to do something.

She does have a big ass though

[MidLifeCrisis Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close MidLifeCrisis]

Ahahahahaha

This thead has been a great relief for most. Does it belong here? ASOLUTELY, not because I have always been a Liberal voter, but because it is funny, a good vent, as well as many other things.

[eatlovelearn Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close eatlovelearn]

thanks for the facts tassie tiger , its very humbling indeed .
the question is though , will a tax be enough ? its very hard to focus on the major issue and get all the facts when governments keep pulling the wool over our eyes .
its hard to trust them when they pull us into wars that dont seem to have any end ,[ i dont think i will ever see a terrorist in my lifetime ]
i think its gonna take alot more than a few catastrophies around the world to make them do what we want . democracy hipocracy

[Auss15 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Auss15]

Disscussion is healthy,it promotes cognitive thinking

[bilo33prado Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bilo33prado]

Labor voters...
. . . .

Prado owner..... Prado forum......

[tassie tiger Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close tassie tiger]

thanks for the facts tassie tiger , its very humbling indeed .
the question is though , will a tax be enough ?

No it will be worse. They will wipe their hands with a smug grin and proudly announce they have addressed it. They are full of it.

[williade Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close williade]

Just to correct you on the climate change bit here is the main problem;

As it is the climate is warming. Has been for 1000's of years. Tasmania actually had glaciers as short a time ago as 18000 years ago which is within the life of aboriginal people down here. So it is getting warmer. We came out of the last big ice age as a result of one thing. The isthmus between north and south america (now mexico) rose up due to tectonic plate movement and cut off the gulf stream from going between the two. This allowed the warm waters from the equator to make their way up towards alaska and this began the melt that we are still experiencing. The ocean is warmed from the equator and makes its way up towards alaska, says hello to the deadliest catch crew, and is met with cold water from the arctic melt. Cold water is denser and flows to the bottom of the ocean and the mix continues.

Now heres the bad news. At the moment the amount of cold water melt is enough to keep it going or to keep it in balance so that it continues. If the rate of melt goes up too much then the cold water can stop the flow. That is the amount of cold water is so much that the cold backs up and the warm slows. There is evidence that the gulf stream has actually stuttered in recent history.

That's one gloomy picture you paint there tiger. But I don't buy that sh!t. You've been watching too many movies. (what I quoted from you could be used to summarize "The day after tomorrow")

The fact is CO2 isn't warming the planet by any amount that is distinguishable from natural variation.

Even if CO2 is warming the planet now and it sends us spiraling into a Hollywood style ice age, natural temperature variability will do the same thing eventually.

That is if we are to believe that the gulf stream is only thing keeping us from slipping into an ice age and that its so fragile that a 2 degree rise in temperature is enough to upset the apple cart.

There is a lot of speculation going on here. And we're about to jump head first into economic reform based this speculation and no hard evidence.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Bit of info about power generation for you. Last week:

4.0 Million Megawatt hours generated in total
3.2 MMWh coal fired
0.5 MMWh gas and other
0.3 MMWh hydro

Lots of coal plant in service and very little that is high efficiency, maybe 400,000 MWh or 12.5% out of the above...

[williade Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close williade]

Bit of info about power generation for you. Last week:

4.0 Million Megawatt hours generated in total
3.2 MMWh coal fired
0.5 MMWh gas and other
0.3 MMWh hydro

Lots of coal plant in service and very little that is high efficiency, maybe 400,000 MWh or 12.5% out of the above...

Wow. I'm not sure what your getting at but I'll add it to my "book of fun dinner table facts".

[tassie tiger Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close tassie tiger]

That's one gloomy picture you paint there tiger. But I don't buy that sh!t. You've been watching too many movies. (what I quoted from you could be used to summarize "The day after tomorrow")

The fact is CO2 isn't warming the planet by any amount that is distinguishable from natural variation.

Even if CO2 is warming the planet now and it sends us spiraling into a Hollywood style ice age, natural temperature variability will do the same thing eventually.

That is if we are to believe that the gulf stream is only thing keeping us from slipping into an ice age and that its so fragile that a 2 degree rise in temperature is enough to upset the apple cart.

There is a lot of speculation going on here. And we're about to jump head first into economic reform based this speculation and no hard evidence.

There just the facts williade. Thats all. Unless of course you have the ability to argue them based on science. Calling them shit really isn't sufficient. You also forgot to include this part of my post;

"Earlier, in 1814 the global temperature dropped by .07deg due to solar anomalies and volcanic eruptions, and caused widespread famine and disease. The Thames froze solid."

It only took .7, not 2 degrees.

Unfortunately there does not seem to be any middle ground for some of us who understand and accept the idea that man, on the balance of probability, is influencing natural climate change, and believe that due to human nature the world will not change enough to make any discernible difference to influence that outcome. The coal oil and gas will be burnt. So I am a believer in the science but not in the political fix.

You do get that I am AGAINST this stupid tax?

cheers

[MidLifeCrisis Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close MidLifeCrisis]

I blame baked beans for global warming... well at least in my micro economic little world

[williade Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close williade]

There just the facts williade. Thats all. Unless of course you have the ability to argue them based on science. Calling them shit really isn't sufficient. You also forgot to include this part of my post;

"Earlier, in 1814 the global temperature dropped by .07deg due to solar anomalies and volcanic eruptions, and caused widespread famine and disease. The Thames froze solid."

It only took .7, not 2 degrees.

Unfortunately there does not seem to be any middle ground for some of us who understand and accept the idea that man, on the balance of probability, is influencing natural climate change, and believe that due to human nature the world will not change enough to make any discernible difference to influence that outcome. The coal oil and gas will be burnt. So I am a believer in the science but not in the political fix.

You do get that I am AGAINST this stupid tax?

cheers

You want science? Tell me if its 0.07 degrees or 0.7 degrees. There is a difference by a factor of 10. How is the temperature in 1814 measured to 0.07 degrees? With what technology? It did not exist in 1814. And don'ttell me they used ice cores as they only tell the you about the local climate WHERE THERE IS ICE.

There is no accurate way of measuring the temperature of the earth even today. You can measure the temperature in each capital city but each will be affected by numerous variables to a greater or lesser extent than the next.

Also please explain how 0.7 degree drop in temperature lead to famine and disease in 1814. I think there is some confusion about cause and effect and plain coincidence.

[MidLifeCrisis Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close MidLifeCrisis]

Temperature rises by a few degrees in my pants after the baked beans have kicked in. Not sure if it 0.7 or 7 degress though.

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

There is no accurate way of measuring the temperature of the earth even today. You can measure the temperature in each capital city but each will be affected by numerous variables to a greater or lesser extent than the next.

I think the point of measuring the temperature is not about the absolute accuracy of the individual measurement, but keeping track of the changes over time. If you care to look, there are thousands of measurement stations all over the planet, not just in cities, and the data is available for you to inspect and analyse at your leisure. WFT For Example

We know what we are doing, the difficulty is in coming to an effective conclusion about the effects of our actions and a collective decision about if/what to do about it. Extreme interests on both sides of the opinion debate are making that process near impossible.

Meh.