CARBON TAX: The truth, the lies and the humour

[tassie tiger Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close tassie tiger]

Come on guys, get with the program! Global warming is yesterdays terminology, it's climate change nowadays cause nobody can decide whether the earth is actually warming or cooling.

Cheers Andrew

To be fair Andrew scientists have referred to it as "Anthropomorphic climate change". The media has picked up on the global warming part (Al Gore didnt help) as that is the first part of what they say will happen. The greenhouse effect and 'warming'. Its really the cooling that will be the problem, if in the end it comes true.

If it just warmed a bit there would be winners and losers - Tassie would be nicer IMO - but if it then cools too far there will be LOTS of losers.

cheers

darren

[tassie tiger Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close tassie tiger]

Something strange last night. Gillard was saying that the coal industry has a strong future under the carbon tax. Combet said there were 19 new coal mines/fields on the approval process.

Has does that work with her carbon tax?

How do they reduce to 5% of emissions from a few years ago if there are more coal mines?

Very strange. Why dont the media ask them to explain?

[williade Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close williade]

Something strange last night. Gillard was saying that the coal industry has a strong future under the carbon tax. Combet said there were 19 new coal mines/fields on the approval process.

Has does that work with her carbon tax?

How do they reduce to 5% of emissions from a few years ago if there are more coal mines?

Very strange. Why dont the media ask them to explain?

Interesting seeing as though Coal is nearly pure carbon. The douche-bag Combet tried to justify this on AM radio saying that its whoever burns the coal (IE china) that bears the guilt [tax]. So its all a feel good thing and has jack shit to do with reducing the world's CO2 production.

[tassie tiger Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close tassie tiger]

Interesting seeing as though Coal is nearly pure carbon. The douche-bag Combet tried to justify this on AM radio saying that its whoever burns the coal (IE china) that bears the guilt [tax]. So its all a feel good thing and has jack shit to do with reducing the world's CO2 production.

Exactly - its garbage! Unless its that new magical coal that stays where its burnt

[Corigator Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Corigator]

Then there's this problem reported in the National Geographic.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...s-warming.html

Not much CO2 up there. And only two cars - But they are electric ;-)

[KIMBOPRADO Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close KIMBOPRADO]

Carbon Tax.... In perspective.
ETS tax for dummies – regardless of your political persuasion. Let's put this into a bit of perspective for laymen!

ETS is another tax. It is equal to putting up the GST to 12.5% which would be unacceptable and produce an outcry.

Read the following analogy and you will realize the insignificance of carbon dioxide as a weather controller.

Pass on to all in your address book including politicians and may be they will listen to their constituents, rather than vested interests which stand to gain by the ETS.

Here's a practical way to understand Julia Gillard Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme.
Imagine 1 kilometre of atmosphere and we want to get rid of the carbon pollution in it created by human activity. Let's go for a walk along it.
• The first 770 metres are Nitrogen..
• The next 210 metres are Oxygen.
• That's 980 metres of the 1 kilometre.
• 20 metres to go.
• The next 10 metres are water vapour.
• 10 metres left.
• 9 metres are argon.
• Just 1 more metre.
• A few gases make up the first bit of that last metre.
• The last 38 centimetres of the kilometre - that's carbon dioxide.
• A bit over one foot.
• 97% of that is produced by Mother Nature.
• Its natural.
• Out of our journey of one kilometre, there are just 12 millimetres left.
• Just over a centimetre - about half an inch.
• Thats the amount of carbon dioxide that global human activity puts into the atmosphere.
• And of those 12 millimetres Australia puts in .18 of a millimetre.
• Less than the thickness of a hair. Out of a kilometre!
As a hair is to a kilometre - so is Australia 's contribution to what Julia Gillard calls Carbon Pollution.

Imagine Brisbane's new Gateway Bridge, ready to be opened by Julia Gillard. It's been polished, painted and scrubbed by an army of workers till its 1 kilometre length is surgically clean. Except that Julia Gillard says we have a huge problem, the bridge is polluted - there's a human hair on the roadway. We'd laugh ourselves silly.

There are plenty of real pollution problems to worry about.

It's hard to imagine that Australia's contribution to carbon dioxide in the world's atmosphere is one of the more pressing ones. And I can't believe that a new tax on everything is the only way to blow that pesky hair away.

Pass this on quickly while the ETS is being debated in Federal Parliament.

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

• Out of our journey of one kilometre, there are just 12 millimetres left.
• Just over a centimetre - about half an inch.
• Thats the amount of carbon dioxide that global human activity puts into the atmosphere.

The effect of CO2 is out of proportion to its relative volume in the atmosphere. It's about the physics, not about the volume. The physics has been well known and scientifically studied to death for over a century.

Would you argue that a snake bite couldn't harm you because the volume is so small, or that a vaccine couldn't protect against disease beacuse its such a small fraction of your body volume?

Argue against the tax all you like, (I'll cheer with you!) but any scientific disagreement is about the degree of effect, not so much that there isn't one.

[tassie tiger Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close tassie tiger]

Carbon Tax.... In perspective.
ETS tax for dummies – regardless of your political persuasion. Let's put this into a bit of perspective for laymen!

ETS is another tax. It is equal to putting up the GST to 12.5% which would be unacceptable and produce an outcry.

Read the following analogy and you will realize the insignificance of carbon dioxide as a weather controller.

Pass on to all in your address book including politicians and may be they will listen to their constituents, rather than vested interests which stand to gain by the ETS.

Here's a practical way to understand Julia Gillard Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme.
Imagine 1 kilometre of atmosphere and we want to get rid of the carbon pollution in it created by human activity. Let's go for a walk along it.
• The first 770 metres are Nitrogen..
• The next 210 metres are Oxygen.
• That's 980 metres of the 1 kilometre.
• 20 metres to go.
• The next 10 metres are water vapour.
• 10 metres left.
• 9 metres are argon.
• Just 1 more metre.
• A few gases make up the first bit of that last metre.
• The last 38 centimetres of the kilometre - that's carbon dioxide.
• A bit over one foot.
• 97% of that is produced by Mother Nature.
• Its natural.
• Out of our journey of one kilometre, there are just 12 millimetres left.
• Just over a centimetre - about half an inch.
• Thats the amount of carbon dioxide that global human activity puts into the atmosphere.
• And of those 12 millimetres Australia puts in .18 of a millimetre.
• Less than the thickness of a hair. Out of a kilometre!
As a hair is to a kilometre - so is Australia 's contribution to what Julia Gillard calls Carbon Pollution.

Imagine Brisbane's new Gateway Bridge, ready to be opened by Julia Gillard. It's been polished, painted and scrubbed by an army of workers till its 1 kilometre length is surgically clean. Except that Julia Gillard says we have a huge problem, the bridge is polluted - there's a human hair on the roadway. We'd laugh ourselves silly.

There are plenty of real pollution problems to worry about.

It's hard to imagine that Australia's contribution to carbon dioxide in the world's atmosphere is one of the more pressing ones. And I can't believe that a new tax on everything is the only way to blow that pesky hair away.

Pass this on quickly while the ETS is being debated in Federal Parliament.

Lets not pass this on and look silly;

In 2008 NASA completed its global mapping of CO2 in the atmosphere using an Atmospheric Infrared Sounder.

Here is a snapshot of the results;

In the southern hemisphere, a belt of mid-tropospheric air containing enhanced concentrations of carbon dioxide emerged between 30 and 40 degrees south latitude. This belt had not previously been seen in the four chemistry-transport models used in this study. The researchers say the flow of air in this belt over South America's high Andes Mountains lifts carbon dioxide from major sources on Earth's surface, such as the respiration of plants, as well as forest fires and facilities used for synthetic fuel production and power generation. A portion of this lifted carbon dioxide is then carried into the mid-troposphere, where it becomes trapped in the mid-latitude jet stream and transported rapidly around the world. "The troposphere is like international waters," Chahine said. "What's produced in one place will travel elsewhere."

Here is a link to the press release;

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/fea...-20081009.html

cheers

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

Minister Combet's comments on the Today Show this morning, in my view, confirmed that this is not really anything to do with addressing climate change when he said their Clean Energy Future policy was a major economic reform that the Government was undertaking. Economic reform? Not Environmental Initiative? Yes - economic reform because it is more about their new tax (ie income for the Government) than truly helping the environment.

And if you think the incentives to off-set the tax will continue forever, you're dead wrong. But the tax will remain.

And I was always told that the best way to get true compliance is through reward and incentive, not detriment and punishment.

[KIMBOPRADO Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close KIMBOPRADO]

[QUOTE=tassie tiger;295537]Lets not pass this on and look silly;

Tassie tiger - this was an extract from an email I had received at work from a CPA - didnt agree with - but thought gave a different perspective? Interestingly yesterday in WA Alinta Gas who we buy all our domestic gas from (a cleaner energy compared to coal etc) - has been charged an additional 29% from the owners of the pipeline to bring it down from the north. Now the state govt decided all this could not be passed onto the end user - so from 1st Aug we out of the blue going to be hit with an additional 10% (leaving Alinta gas picking up the tab). What going to happen next year when this new tax gets though how much is the end user be going to pay then- this current govt seem to think we can afford it - unless you earn under $60k and get tax savings etc ? In prespective, were not like greece (riots in streets from new reforms required) - Australia is still the lucky country- riding off the mining back

[tassie tiger Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close tassie tiger]

Hey Kimbo

I am fully against the tax. Like most things, if your gonna do something do it right. The tax is just BS.

As photoprado says, the discussion over whether its happening has been done now. There is sufficient balance of probability on the side of the science that its correct.

Its what we do, or dont do, that is important IMO.

Whilst ever those against the carbon tax argue that the science is not settled or is incorrect their voices get lost as they are labelled deniers and fools. So smart, educated argument against the tax is lost and replaced with derision.

One of the presenters on climate change at work summed it up this way. "I like my nuts, they do me good, and if I had to bet them on the outcome, I would go with the scientists......"

I also like my nuts

cheers

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

A Carbon Tax, a carbon tax, we're all going to have a carbon tax...

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

A waste of energy?

[KIMBOPRADO Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close KIMBOPRADO]

Ha Ha - you got to love aussie houmor don't get too serious about things (bringing science into things) - Paul McDermott voice of an angel with doug anthony allstars

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

(a John Clarke, Bryan Dawes skit) - (The Customer)

[Scene: A car yard. BRYAN is perusing the stock.
He is approached by JOHN]
John: Morning! Looking for a new car?
Bryan: Nope. Prime Minister, actually.
John: You’re the third one this morning. Anything in mind?
Bryan: You know....... nothing fancy, reliable, economical family model. Something to get the country from A to B.
John: You mean like a Howard?
Bryan: Yeah....a little Johnny. Nothing flash, does the job. Low maintenance, economical, sensible. Runs for years, no troubles.
John: So.... you used to have one?
Bryan: Yeah. About 10 years. Great little model – don’t know why I got rid of him --biggest mistake I’ve ever made…
John: What happened?
Bryan: Traded him in for a Kevin 07.
John: Big mistake…
Bryan: Lot of people bought it. Good political mileage.
John: How was the Kevin 07?
Bryan: Came with a $900 factory rebate – that was good.
John: Anything else?
Bryan: Not much. Sounded nice but nothing under the bonnet. It was a lemon.
John: Didn’t stick around for long did it?
Bryan: Nah – had a factory recall. Shipped overseas and was never seen again.
John: What was the problem?
Bryan: Lots. But the final straw was the navigation system. Plug it in and it automatically loses its own way.
John: Whatcha got now?
Bryan: It’s a Gillard-Brown.
John: The hybrid?
Bryan: Yeah. The Eco-drive system – not a good idea. An engine that can’t deliver hooked up to a transmission stuck in permanent reverse…
John: Green paintwork with a red interior. And steering that always lurches to the left for no apparent reason – that’s the one?
Bryan: The Fustercluck model.
John: The only one they made, Bryan. Not the vehicle of choice for the road to recovery – but did they finish up fixing the navigation system?
Bryan: Made it worse. Turn it on and it does a press release, heads off in all directions and goes nowhere.
John: So that’s why you’re here?
Bryan: That’s right. I’m stuck with a government that's wasteful, expensive, ineffective and past its use by date. I don’t suppose you’ve heard of the “Cash for Clunkers” scheme?
John: Join the queue brother.